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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/9/2008 8:21:17 AM
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P31W
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quote:
It seems to some that those without means that need some government assistance just to get by are lumped into the "leaching off others" category.
See when the CHURCH is giving out benevolance then we don't have this problem. The people know one another and we won't have leaches....we are to remove them from the church benevolance programs and provide assistance to ONLY those who are truly in need.
We are as a Chruch to allow the greedy to go without EVEN food. We put the "choice" to go without food back into "their hands". Then --- they cannot blame anyone but themselves for their situation and we hope they will repent of their sin restoring them to a right relationship with both God and their Church family.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/9/2008 8:23:04 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
So they run to the government who won't care if they are having sex with everyone in town, using drugs and not working because they don't want to work enough hours per week to support themselves or their families.
Best definition of poor I've ever seen!  Never worked among the poor have you?
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/9/2008 8:25:48 AM
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P31W
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I live in one of the poorest areas in my community in MISSISSIPPI.
I KNOW about leaches.
By profession I am a SOCIAL WORKER> Save it.
I know what multi-generational welfare looks like. I live with it every day of my live. MOST of the people on my road get a government check for one reason or another. They "laugh" at working people for being stupid.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/9/2008 8:27:47 AM
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P31W
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We just send back home the people from NO who were bussed here. Do you know they had the NERVE to compalin to us volunteers who were feeding them with our own food. Yep!!!! In fact many of our agencies and area churches are looking into ways to "change" what we are doing for these people because they have become simply abusive of our workers and facilities.
These people were so ungreatful that they went on TV and complained about the help they were getting from us "volunteers". What these ignorant, selfish, ungrateful people did was expose to our entire community their true selves. Now our donations are dropping like a rock and I understand why. Our food panty is stripped dry because of these uncaring people and now our own "needy" may be forced to go without.
On a more personal note. I for one will not help the New Orleans welfare folks who come here again. They simply "expect" us to give them whatever they want and still they complain and destroy our facilities. I will 'only' give assistance to those people from NO that I personally know.
< Message edited by P31W -- 9/9/2008 8:34:23 AM >
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/9/2008 8:31:32 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2511
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Ok I'll give you your rant but are all poor people like that. I work with the poor at our church and there are MANY who work multiple jobs to try to make ends meet and are loathe to accept government or church assistence. But sometimes they do require it in very tough times such as these and to lump all of them together IMO insults these people whose only crime is they lack the education, skills or younger age to land a job!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/9/2008 8:36:11 AM
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P31W
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Too many "professing Christians" don't want to be held accountable for their own actions and don't what to help hold others accountable for their actions either.
That's the part of my post that came before the sentence you posted. Don't take my post "out of context"!!!!!
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/9/2008 8:40:39 AM
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drmark
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quote:
In fact many of our agencies and area churches are looking into ways to "change" what we are doing for these people because they have become simply abusive of our workers and facilities. To put this in perspective of the OP, one finds this sentiment of ingratitude and condescension in systems providing "free" health care as well. Most people will bad-mouthe any free service because they reason that it cannot be worth much if it's free! When the government tells us it's our "right" to have free and unlimited health care, believe me, that's when the American medical system will fall into the depths of mediocrity or worse.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/10/2008 10:30:16 AM
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relady
Posts: 1286
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From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
When the government tells us it's our "right" to have free and unlimited health care, believe me, that's when the American medical system will fall into the depths of mediocrity or worse. Well, I would agree with you IF I had heard anyone, anywhere state that any medical care should be free and unlimited. I have heard that it should be a system that is affordable, which is a whole different ball of wax. For those who need free, I certainly don't think it should be unlimited. I pay and my coverage is not unlimited.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 8:35:03 AM
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P31W
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quote:
I have heard that it should be a system that is affordable, which is a whole different ball of wax.
Affordable?????
Do you realize that there are millions of Americans who can right this second cut a check for medical insurance but "choose" not to?
Medical Insurance is currently affordable for "most" of the people who do not carry it. It's affordable but they chose "not" to make the lifestyle choices to be able to pay for it each month.
Unless we "stop" with the handouts and trying to make life easy on people who are lazy, lack purdence and so forth we are going to allow those people to drag this country into the dumps. A society that "caters" to the leaches of it's population is courting trouble.
Just like when a Public School takes money from the talented and gifted class to invest it into the learning disables classes. The talented and gifted class if filled with "future taxpayers, scientist, doctors, inventors and the like". Many in the ld class will "never" earn a dime of money in their life and will require others provide for all their needs. From brith to the grave they will require someone to work and provide for them.
I am about to give a lecture before 50 households. Many of those people want me to tell them how they can afford to drive their current car, live in their current home, continue to keep their children in certain sports, keep their hobbies, cable TV, computer with high speed internet service, drink a six pack on the weekends with a cig in their mouth, while talking on their cell phone, working only 40 hrs per week, have yet another child and continue to allow their wife to be a SAHM........I kid you not!!!!!
On average these people will be upside down in a at "least" one vehicle, own some sort of recreational toy they don't need (boat, 4-wheeler, gun for hunting, above ground pool, etc) On Average they will have no savings and a negative net worth. They will not have a budget and will not be actively doing anything to increase the ability for their family to bring in more income in the future.
MOST will think they pay personal income tax when in reality they pay in none and monay are on welfare in the form of EIC and don't realize it's welfare.
Most of these families will have teenager who do not work rather they suck the family budget dry and the parents not only allow this to happen but encourage their kids to not work and focus on band, football, or just having fun while they are young. These teenagers have no self discipline and no reguard for a dollar. Those who don't yet have teenagers or young adults sucking them dry are by their own power creating future leaches who will do this to them.
What I have described to you is the average American who if their employer does not hand feed them medical insurance would scream "we cannot afford it".
Truth is they can. They just don't want to do what it takes to get it.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 8:40:54 AM
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P31W
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quote:
I don't care if you are working or not. Everyone should have access to good adequate health care.
God said if you don't work you don't eat. It appears to me that you believe God is not good and his wisdom is worth obeying?
You are free to go get a third, forth or fifth job inorder to provide any uninsured person you would like with medical insurance. No one here is going to stop you. You can downsize and live in a one room shack inorder to do this if you would like.
As for me. I want to stick with scripture. If you don't work you don't eat. And I am certainly not going to work for someone to have more babies and expect me to care for them too!!!!
God tells me that I am worse than a non-believer if I don't provide first for my family....and he was not just talking about my spouse and children rather my extended family.....It's "my responsibility" according to God to provide for their needs as well so that His name is not drug through the mud because of my lack of doing what is required to provide for their needs.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 9:45:21 AM
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P31W
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I have out of my own pocket paid for a family to have medical insurance? Can you say the same? Or do you want me to provide for you to so you can sit around and complain?
I am the kind of neighbor whose teaches her family to work inorder to first support themselves and provide for their own needs, to be able to give beyond a tithe to the Lords work, to pay into the federal tax system seven figures per year and to help our neighbor who is UNALBE to work because their arms and legs are paralized.
Now what do you do? Tell us>
If I had to guess I bet you have never taken someone to the hosptial and signed to be responsible for "their" medical bills? (I am talking of couse about a neighbor not a relative) I have.
I don't like excuses for NOT doing what it takes to do these sorts of things.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 9:50:34 AM
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P31W
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It's almost 9. I must leave now. Every thursday at nine a group of us who work to support ourselves and our families meet so that we can minister to those within our community who have "real needs" not lazy folks who want to mooch off of others and tell them how evil they are for EXPECTING them to work and bare their own work load.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 10:53:11 AM
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triode
Posts: 46
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P31W:
"It's almost 9. I must leave now. Every thursday at nine a group of us who work to support ourselves and our families meet so that we can minister to those within our community who have "real needs" not lazy folks who want to mooch off of others and tell them how evil they are for EXPECTING them to work and bare their own work load."
The rest of us call that "work". DO NOT accuse me of wanting to sit around and mooch off of you or anyone else. DO NOT accuse me of being lazy.
I signed to be responsable for my wife's medical bills. They are payed for. She is dead. Don't be so full of yourself. You "pay into the federal tax system seven figures per year"? I guess it's easy to say "if they don't work, they don't eat, and I won't help" when you pay $1 million a year (at least) in taxes. That's what seven figures is: 1,000,000. One million. I've payed for my own insurance through work, and with my own money when it was barely possible, so the BILLS WOULD BE PAYED. Don't brag about covering your neighbor's bill if you pay "into the federal tax system seven figures per year", you are apparently in a position to easily afford that or you wouldn't do it. At least be more specific before you brag: Was you neighbor's bill for $600 or $600,000?
Everyone in this country should have access to good health care without worrying about paying the bill. Everyone working should be able to change jobs without worrying about not be covered for any length of time. Some of us are willing to use our tax money to help those less fortunate, across the board, and then there are the greedy. If your clientel sickens you so get out of social work. Who did you think you would be helping? The Gates and Buffets of the country?
Edited TOS 5
< Message edited by Kath -- 9/11/2008 6:10:09 PM >
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 11:55:57 AM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
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quote:
I don't care if you are working or not. Everyone should have access to good adequate health care.
And they do. No one in this country is denied health care for lack of ability to pay. It's the law!! The issue is health insurance. If you can't understand the issue, you'll never get your point across.
quote:
triode
Everyone in this country should have access to good health care without worrying about paying the bill.
So everyone is entitled to a free lunch? Where on Earth do you get this idea from? I learned this was foolish in second grade.
quote:
Some of us are willing to use our tax money to help those less fortunate, across the board
I've got a bulletin for you, triode. We ALL pay taxes, and it rarely helps the less fortunate. If you're so willing to pay extra to help those in need, as the President said recently - "the IRS takes checks, VISA and MC". The rest of us will pay what's due to Ceasar, and with what's left over we will gladly help our neighbors in need, whether you approve or not.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 12:48:19 PM
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CarlaJames
Posts: 39
Joined: 5/30/2005
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I'll say this...I don't know enough about socialized medical care to post an honest opinion.
But SOMETHING has to be done about these private insurance companies. They are so expensive and someone needs to regulate what they can charge us. My husband and I are self employed and haven't had insurance in years. We only go to the Dr. like two times a year and the Dr cuts us a deal for NOT having insurance. He says sometimes it's cheaper to pay cash then deal with insurance companies and all their paperwork.
So lets say I got private insurance...I'll pay close to 800 a month for my family....go to the Dr. twice a year and NEVER reach my deductible cuz I'd never go that often. So there we are out $9600 dollars a year PLUS our 80% copay (cuz we didn't reach our deductible). Sounds like a crock to me. No thank you....I'll pay my 50 dollars a visit twice a year and keep the rest of the money for myself and my family. The only bad thing here is we are taking a chance at a huge hospital/doctor bill if any of us are hospitalized or get seriously ill.
But anyway...I kinda got off subject. My point is, something has to happen. It should be illegal for them to charge us what they do. And it only costs them pennies on the dollar for what we are charged.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 1:01:30 PM
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macokjc
Posts: 265
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quote:
So lets say I got private insurance...I'll pay close to 800 a month for my family....go to the Dr. twice a year and NEVER reach my deductible cuz I'd never go that often. So there we are out $9600 dollars a year PLUS our 80% copay (cuz we didn't reach our deductible). Sounds like a crock to me. No thank you....I'll pay my 50 dollars a visit twice a year and keep the rest of the money for myself and my family. The only bad thing here is we are taking a chance at a huge hospital/doctor bill if any of us are hospitalized or get seriously ill.
All insurance is basically a gamble - but I suggest you talk to the people who have been diagnosed with cancer, or been in a car accident (w/ an uninsured drive), or even simply broke a leg. We have insurance because of the unexpected, and I think it's foolish to not have at least major medical.
You are right in the fact that they system is broken, but I am not willing to give it to the governement. For one thing, think about all the people who already have socialized care (medicaid) who use the ER rooms like a doctor's office. That's only going to get worse. Also, because of the system we have, doctors work hard and learn more to stay ahead of the game and become the best in their fields. When we socialize it, that's not going to matter to them, so they won't work as hard. Finally, the government w/ it's tax the rich and give to the poor while being politically correct has made a mess out of the systems the do control: illegal immigration; welfare; public schools; social security, etc. Some of that falls on the states as well. However, when you have a country that can't figure out how to hire teachers to teach a 6 year old to read - I certainly don't want them in charge of my health care benefits.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 1:51:49 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
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Great article on this very subject;
Health-Care Realism
By Robert J. Samuelson
Wednesday, September 10, 2008; Page A15
Unless you've been living in the Himalayas, you know that huge numbers of Americans -- 46 million last year -- lack health insurance. By impressive majorities, Americans regard this as a moral stain. At the Democratic National Convention, Sen. Ted Kennedy echoed the view of many that health care is a "right" that demands universal insurance. This completely understandable view is, I think, utterly wrong. Take note, Barack Obama and John McCain.
The central health-care problem is not improving coverage. It's controlling costs.
Rest of the article - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/09/AR2008090902520.html
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 1:56:19 PM
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womaninchrist
Posts: 456
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Backrowbaptist, that is NOT the law. People can be - and are routinely - denied care due to lack of insurance and/or inabilty to otherwise pay for the care. The ONLY care anyone is "guaranteed" is emergency care at an ER and even then ONLY to the point they've been stabilized enough for release. If that means they MUST have surgery and after care, then they'll get it - like if their appendix is about to rupture. But if that means that upon triage someone realizes all they really need is a referral to a regular doc/clinic or to urgent care, like say they need their regularly scheduled labs and refills for diabetes or to be told "yes, you do have the flu", they may just leave with a list of clinics to call for an appointment - some of which "might" see the uninsured.
BTW, if you do go to an ER without insurance, they have the right to bill you for the full cost of whatever care they provide. They don't have to write that off, though many hositals will write off at least part of it if you bother to ask. Whatever isn't written off is typically pursued to the full extent of the law.
< Message edited by womaninchrist -- 9/11/2008 2:02:22 PM >
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 2:27:06 PM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
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triode,
I reported your post. I also want to say that I made a mistake. We don't pay seven figures in personal income tax a year. It's six.
I have a social work degree and my husband has his highschool diploma. We have never recieved a dime of inheritance. When we married our total net worth was $500.00. We did not even have cars. That was 25 years ago. Our work day begins at 4:00 am and ends when the jobs are complete - on average my husband now" work about 57 hrs. per week. I don't know how many I put in per week because it's just part of our daily life to be working. We are christians who try to the very best of our ability to live by the guidelines give out in scripture. Early in my life I began to study the book of Proverbs in scripture and pray for God to show me how to obey them in my daily life. He is faithful and has done that.
< Message edited by P31W -- 9/11/2008 2:35:18 PM >
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 2:28:39 PM
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P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Backrowbaptist, that is NOT the law. People can be - and are routinely - denied care due to lack of insurance and/or inabilty to otherwise pay for the care. The ONLY care anyone is "guaranteed" is emergency care at an ER and even then ONLY to the point they've been stabilized enough for release. If that means they MUST have surgery and after care, then they'll get it - like if their appendix is about to rupture. But if that means that upon triage someone realizes all they really need is a referral to a regular doc/clinic or to urgent care, like say they need their regularly scheduled labs and refills for diabetes or to be told "yes, you do have the flu", they may just leave with a list of clinics to call for an appointment - some of which "might" see the uninsured.
BTW, if you do go to an ER without insurance, they have the right to bill you for the full cost of whatever care they provide. They don't have to write that off, though many hositals will write off at least part of it if you bother to ask. Whatever isn't written off is typically pursued to the full extent of the law.
I agree.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 4:50:38 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2472
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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quote:
And they do. No one in this country is denied health care for lack of ability to pay.
Yes they are.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 5:11:33 PM
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triode
Posts: 46
Joined: 8/4/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
triode,
I reported your post. I also want to say that I made a mistake. We don't pay seven figures in personal income tax a year. It's six.
So what?
Six figures in taxes? Your still making a ton. It was pretty obvious you made a mistake.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 5:25:59 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
If you want good health coverage for all, why not worry first about those in genuinely poor countries instead of those in the US who by comparison get first class healthcare round the board? Yup, anything to get the focus off Americans who need help, because, gee, they really don't need it. Good grief.
First off, America does provide billions in aid to other countries every year. Secondly, it's not our job to provide every thing for every one in the world. I've never advocated that and I don't plan to start soon. If America was truly worried about human rights & all that in foreign countries, we would have been in Afghanistan a decade before 9/11 when the Taliban took over and started their horrendous mysogynistic campaign agains women. Or we would be in Darfur NOW, instead of Iraq.
This conversation is about health care in America, not the world.
Oh no no. You and others throughout this entire thread have turned the discussion into whether or not those not in favor of universal healthcare really care about the poor. You and others are the ones who opened that can of worms, not me. I have had to defend myself on every angle as to how much "care" I have for those in need. I'm not talking about what America's responsibility is, I'm talking about the personal responsibility to care for the poor that all Christians are charged with. The responsibility that you and others throughout this thread have accused those on my side of ignoring.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 7:48:05 PM
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CarlaJames
Posts: 39
Joined: 5/30/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
All insurance is basically a gamble - but I suggest you talk to the people who have been diagnosed with cancer, or been in a car accident (w/ an uninsured drive), or even simply broke a leg. We have insurance because of the unexpected, and I think it's foolish to not have at least major medical.
You're not telling me anything I don't already know. I know I'm taking a gamble.
I know a family in that situation right now. Two years ago their 4 year old was killed in a car accident. They didn't have health insurance...wanna know why? Thanks to our government the husband was given an Anthrax shot in the military which KILLED his pancreas. Army threw him out and the only thing they offered him was to pay for his diabetic supplies NOTHING MORE! Thank you Army! So now they are in civilian life looking for insurance BUT because he is diabetic he is considered uninsured and the other son....considered uninsured only because he has something wrong with him that MIGHT cause cancer as an ADULT!!!!!!!!!!
As I said before..I'm not necessarliy for governement health care. But I am for someone doing something about the way insurance companies are ran as of now. It should be illegal to say someone is uninsurable. And they should regulate their prices.
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