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Socialized Medical Care - 6/18/2008 12:43:58 PM
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Marcus.
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This thread is for those folks wanting to discuss universal aka socialized healthcare. This is to let the folks wanting to discuss it have a thread of their own.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/18/2008 12:50:53 PM
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CatholicCritter
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Putting the health care of the people in the hands of a governing body that is self absorbed, self interested, inept, and rivaled in poor judgment only by the United Nations would be bad.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/18/2008 1:07:11 PM
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uncabeeil
Posts: 5614
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Joisey. Got a problem wit dat?
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As would being told who to see and when you can see them. I wouldn't want to wait months to have a root canal because the government says I have to.
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Sniglet of the day: Caterpallor (n.): The color you turn after finding half a grub in the fruit you're eating.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/18/2008 1:07:51 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3243
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From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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All I can say about socialized medicine is this:
-My BIL lives in a country with socialized medicine. He is well off and when he or his family have medical needs, they travel to the United States and pay cash rather than utilize their country's "medical care."
-I used to work for a company that owned and operated 64 hospitals around the world, one of which was a Private Clinic/Hospital (cash only) in a country with socialized medicine...the patient census there was always 100% with a waiting list.
Need I say more?
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"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/18/2008 1:16:44 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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From: SW Missouri
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No way! Just look at the medicaid mess to get all the info you need. There is a reason why so many doctors and dentists do not take medicaid.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/18/2008 1:18:41 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2985
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
This thread is for those folks wanting to discuss universal aka socialized healthcare. This is to let the folks wanting to discuss it have a thread of their own.
If people love Medicare, then they'll love socialized medicine.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/18/2008 4:52:37 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 640
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
This thread is for those folks wanting to discuss universal aka socialized healthcare. This is to let the folks wanting to discuss it have a thread of their own.
If people love Medicare, then they'll love socialized medicine.
Exactly! I always try to argue the point with people that the government simply cannot do anything better than the private sector, yet they just keep on with the nonsense that I should wait to see the particulars of the government plan first. Well, I dont' need to! I can think of two major plans that I'm sure sounded great at first and are now faltering: Medicare and social security! I think I'll just learn from history and say no to any more government run programs, thank you very much!
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/18/2008 5:00:15 PM
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freakofnature
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I find it quite ironic that it is the same Pro-Death (abortion lovers) that used to always scream that the government needs to stay out of our doctors offices and that the decission for abortion is between a doctor and patient. NOW, They want to run your health care???
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/18/2008 7:19:08 PM
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SonInMe1
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From: my mom by God
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Power.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 4:04:13 AM
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tacitus
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You know, all I ever see in this forum about any form of nationalized health care (and there are many forms) is a knee jerk reaction as to how terrible it would be. Nobody ever seems to bother to study the real facts, like virtually all western industrialized nations apart from the US has some form of it, and while they are not without some problems (no system is perfect) the vast majority of people in those countries wouldn't have it any other way. That should tell you something.
Anyway, I am reposting what I said in another thread about my family's experiences with the British National Health Service. And remember, all this costs 1/3 per capita what it costs us for health care here in the US.
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Well I lived in the UK for 30 years and I can tell you that cancer patient and heart patients never had to wait 4 years for an operation unless it was something like waiting for a heart transplant where the situation is no better in the USA. There have been long waiting lists in times past, but they were for non-critical issues like hip replacement surgery. Not pleasant for the sufferer by any means, but they weren't dying.
And as a matter of fact, my mother had a bladder cancer operation just a couple of weeks after detection, and my father had a stent put in just a few weeks after they detected he had heart disease. They are both alive today because of speedy, efficient and quality care from the British National Health Service. My mother also had a fall a couple of years ago and torn ligaments in her shoulder. There *was* a waiting list for the surgery to repair the damage (only about 16 weeks mind, not 4 years) so they decided to pay for the surgery themselves. As school teachers all their lives they are not wealthy people by any means, but because they had not been saddled with hefty medical bills for their more serious illnesses they were able to afford private surgery nonetheless (yes, shock horror, affordable private medicine and insurance is still available in the UK!!) and they opted to go private. My father also has diabetes which is being closely monitored by the local NHS doctor and has thus ensured that he hasn't needed expensive health care from any complications that could arise at his age (he's nearly 80). My mother has to take expensive antibiotics to stave off bladder infections (no cancer though) which would probably be a major drain of their resources if they had to pay for them.
So the caricature of the British NHS you see described in these forums is grossly inaccurate. Sure there are problems, some of them serious, but by and large it functions very well for most people and the vast majority of Brits wouldn't have it any other way -- not even Margaret Thatcher dared to do away with it, and the right-wing Conservative Party is claiming that it will do an even better job running the NHS if they win the next election. Nobody in the UK wants to do away with the NHS any more. It works and gives everyone access to healthcare regardless of income. And those who can afford private healthcare have plenty of options open to them too. (Unlike Rudy Giuliani's ridiculous claims last year).
And let's not forget, Americans are playing double to three times per capita for their healthcare compared to the Brits, so private medicine is no bargain. Guess who has to pay for all those uninsured who finally come in with advanced cancer or other serious illness because they didn't have the money to seek early diagnosis and treatment -- that's right, we do, for all 40 million uninsured and more! And as I have personally discovered, private medicine is no guarantee of speedy service -- I have had to wait up to 10 weeks just to see a specialist at times.
And for those of you who don't have a good health insurance plan through work, how many times have you fretted or worried about going to the doctor because of the possible expense, or the possibility of your rates going sky high, or losing the insurance altogether? I know one person who spent years with a bad stomach worrying about the costs of treatment before I persuaded him to go get it checked out. He was lucky -- it was treatable, but if it had been cancer it would have been too late. Having lived with the NHS, with company health insurance, and now with a personal insurance plan, the difference is night and day with the amount of stress and worry paying for private healthcare adds to your life. And I am lucky that I don't have a family to support. In the UK nobody goes bankrupt because of medical bills. In the US, up to 500,000 people suffer that fate every year because of medical expenses, meaning that every year well over a million people (including spouses and children) suffer through one of the most traumatic live events that can happen to a family. No wonder the divorce rate is so high these days (financial issues ranks high in the causes of divorce).
I understand that the idea of government administered health care is ideologically repugnant to many people around here, but that does not mean that some form of nationalized healthcare (and there are many to chose from) doesn't work better than our broken-down private system in the USA. Comparing the raw stats of American life-expectancy, infant mortality, and other health indicators with other countries in western industrialized nations. The US is 38th in life expectancy and around 30th in infant mortality. Every nation with some form of nationalized health care is ahead of the US (including Cuba!). Something is badly wrong with this picture.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 7:00:16 AM
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freakofnature
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quote:
tacitus said:
I understand that the idea of government administered health care is ideologically repugnant to many people around here, but that does not mean that some form of nationalized healthcare (and there are many to chose from) doesn't work better than our broken-down private system in the USA.
The government is in-efficient, at best, at running the local license branch or social security office, much less the health care for 300,000,000 people. (That's 300 million for those of you in the public education system... also government ran????)
< Message edited by freakofnature -- 6/20/2008 7:13:47 AM >
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 7:05:01 AM
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Peter_Gunn
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Our medical "care" will be like the DMV and FEMA. Sounds efficient.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 9:26:40 AM
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Sophie11
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To be perfectly honest, I could care less how many stories of universal healthcare there are that support it. Besides the fact that there are just as many if not more stories of universal healthcare not being all it's cracked up to be, but I still don't care. It makes no difference to me. I simply am not wanting to be more dependent on my government, plain and simple. I do not want the government controlling such an important service. Would everything be sunshine and lollipops? Or would they "borrow" from the healthcare funds the way they did with social security? I'm not willing to risk it in the case it becomes the latter. No thanks, I'd rather pay more and at least know I am able to get necessary surgeries and treatments if the need arises.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 9:52:13 AM
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Peter_Gunn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
To be perfectly honest, I could care less how many stories of universal healthcare there are that support it. Besides the fact that there are just as many if not more stories of universal healthcare not being all it's cracked up to be, but I still don't care. It makes no difference to me. I simply am not wanting to be more dependent on my government, plain and simple. I do not want the government controlling such an important service. Would everything be sunshine and lollipops? Or would they "borrow" from the healthcare funds the way they did with social security? I'm not willing to risk it in the case it becomes the latter. No thanks, I'd rather pay more and at least know I am able to get necessary surgeries and treatments if the need arises.
Amen, Sophie...well said!
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 9:56:02 AM
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PhunkD
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I would rather trust elected officials that I elect than a private company that is only looking out for the bottom line.
But I can understand not wanting the gov't to run health care. I certainly do not trust the current administration to do much at all.
When we elect a party that hates government, we should not expect them to govern well.
But once upon a time, our government was able to build highways, parks, and bridges, as well as create a safety net for those in need. Once upon a time, our government kept us out of war when it could, and won a war when it had to. Once, as a people, we stood up, through our government to monopolies that took advantage of people.
Now, we have gotten so used to bad government that we don't think it can do anything.
I still believe that a democratically elected government can do some good things, and it isn't too much of a challenge to provide health care that is accessible and affordable, while still maintaining a high quality of service. If anybody DOESN'T have enough faith in the American people to accomplish this, than I wouldn't vote for them!
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 10:19:38 AM
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freakofnature
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quote:
When we elect a party that hates government, we should not expect them to govern well.
Where on earth does this sentiment come from? What conservative hates goverment??? What I hate is government intrusion! I love, small government. To build roads, bridges and provide a protective service. That's about it though?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 10:32:16 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 640
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
I would rather trust elected officials that I elect than a private company that is only looking out for the bottom line.
Yes but the company looking for the bottom line needs the bottom line to stay in business, therefore needs the people to keep it alive constantly. An elected official only needs the people during the actual election season, and then would more than likely rather lick the gum that's stuck under the table at your nearest Bob Evans than have to actually take the time to listen to what the people want.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 10:39:20 AM
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PhunkD
Posts: 170
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
I would rather trust elected officials that I elect than a private company that is only looking out for the bottom line.
Yes but the company looking for the bottom line needs the bottom line to stay in business, therefore needs the people to keep it alive constantly. An elected official only needs the people during the actual election season, and then would more than likely rather lick the gum that's stuck under the table at your nearest Bob Evans than have to actually take the time to listen to what the people want.
Of course, a government official will be able to declare victory if there are less sick people.
A private company depends on there being more sick people than treatment for prices/profits to stay high enough.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 10:42:58 AM
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freakofnature
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quote:
A private company depends on there being more sick people than treatment for prices/profits to stay high enough.
Ewww! I know, those eeevil companies and that eeeeeviiiiillll PROFIT!!!!
(Woman shreaks and screams in background-)
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 10:43:35 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 640
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
Of course, a government official will be able to declare victory if there are less sick people.
Either that or when there is no decline in the number of people sick, it will be blamed on the people, or blamed on other factors the government will then try to ban like the horrible trans fat.
quote:
A private company depends on there being more sick people than treatment for prices/profits to stay high enough.
There will always be sick people. And even a private company is going to run better and more efficiently when there are less sick people and no overcrowding of the hospitals.
< Message edited by Sophie11 -- 6/20/2008 10:52:04 AM >
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 10:48:11 AM
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freakofnature
Posts: 737
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Face it... Socialized medicine means 1 thing and 1 thing only. Government "Nannies"
The gvmnt will want to reduce the number of sick by controlling what we as citizens eat, do on the weekends, drink... As soon as a case that HO-HO's cause cancer, then out with the HO-HO's. Coffee keeps people from getting cancer... Bam! Mandate, every one has to drink coffee. It is a very slippery slope. What is it that you think the goverment will do to cut medical cost? An 80 year old man goes to the doctor with cancer??? "Well, sorry, just nothing we can do, need to cut back on cost and you are too old to care for at this point. We can refer you to Dr. Kavorkian"
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 10:54:44 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 640
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
Face it... Socialized medicine means 1 thing and 1 thing only. Government "Nannies"
The gvmnt will want to reduce the number of sick by controlling what we as citizens eat, do on the weekends, drink... As soon as a case that HO-HO's cause cancer, then out with the HO-HO's. Coffee keeps people from getting cancer... Bam! Mandate, every one has to drink coffee. It is a very slippery slope. What is it that you think the goverment will do to cut medical cost? An 80 year old man goes to the doctor with cancer??? "Well, sorry, just nothing we can do, need to cut back on cost and you are too old to care for at this point. We can refer you to Dr. Kavorkian"
I think you are spot on! That would definitely end up happening!
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 12:16:17 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2985
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
Status: offline
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And we would even trust the government figures of who is sick and who's not?
I'm much less intimidated by the "almighty dollar" dictating medical care than some committee somewhere. Granted, letting the dollar completely dictate is not the best way, but a group of government employees deciding whether I get medical care or not gives me a chill up my back.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 12:50:50 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 865
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PhunkD
I would rather trust elected officials that I elect than a private company that is only looking out for the bottom line.
But I can understand not wanting the gov't to run health care. I certainly do not trust the current administration to do much at all.
When we elect a party that hates government, we should not expect them to govern well.
But once upon a time, our government was able to build highways, parks, and bridges, as well as create a safety net for those in need. Once upon a time, our government kept us out of war when it could, and won a war when it had to. Once, as a people, we stood up, through our government to monopolies that took advantage of people.
Now, we have gotten so used to bad government that we don't think it can do anything.
I still believe that a democratically elected government can do some good things, and it isn't too much of a challenge to provide health care that is accessible and affordable, while still maintaining a high quality of service. If anybody DOESN'T have enough faith in the American people to accomplish this, than I wouldn't vote for them!
Agreed and very well said.
Currently in the US, we have privatized healthcare, and it is painfully obvious that it does not work.
I, myself, have excellent health insurance - thank God because I have asthma, chronic bronchitis, allergies. However, I know some that do not. Some do not, like my neighbor, who started a local charity out of her own garage - ran it successfully for 20+ years. She gave so much to people in need. Now, with chronic back problems, she was dropped by her insurance company. She may have to either sell her house or take a 2nd mortgage to pay for her surgeries; or, just live with sometimes debilitating back pain. This is wrong, and it is echoed all across our country - sadly, also involving children, also involving people in even more dire situations.
There has to be some help from the government for those without, because our current privatized health care system is plainly not working. I would gladly pay more taxes to help people like my neighbor - who gladly helped others when they were in need.
Peace and God bless,
< Message edited by Lizahana -- 6/20/2008 12:58:00 PM >
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/20/2008 1:01:11 PM
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freakofnature
Posts: 737
Joined: 1/17/2008
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quote:
However, I know some that do not. Some do not, like my neighbor, who started a local charity out of her own garage - ran it successfully for 20+ years. She gave so much to people in need. Now, with chronic back problems, she was dropped by her insurance company. She may have to either sell her house or take a 2nd mortgage to pay for her surgeries; or, just live with sometimes debilitating back pain.
Sad story... wow... well.. choices choices? Not the tax payers problem. The reality is that she has had options and this is the option she choses. KEY WORDS "CHOOSES and CHOICE." All that personal responsibility junk ya' know.
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