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[Poll]
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Dude?!??!?!?!?!?!
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| Offensive. |
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| Makes no difference to me. |
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| Not offensive. |
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Total Votes : 75
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(last vote on : 9/2/2008 12:31:49 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/19/2008 6:01:00 PM
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Lufia
Posts: 187
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Canada, quebec province
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As ben said, the important thing here is the heart. God knows our heart and if we say dude in a disrespectful way He will know for sure. So i think it's between you and God. It's personal.
_____________________________
Give your life to Jesus and enjoy the ride!
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/19/2008 6:08:30 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 576
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
It seems a lot of this has to do with age and maturity level. The more a person matures (mentally and spiritually) the more they understand the concept of reverence.
Most of the youngsters around here have been brought up with an MTV mentality. Even in the schools these days, there is not any real authority. So where are the kids' examples???
Peter,
Being a teacher, I can attest to what you say. On a greater level, across the board, very little is transcendent in our culture these days. Very little of anything is given reverence. Next to nothing is sacred. Kids can turn their back on the flag, while pointing their middle finger in the air in the name of "freedom of speech." The degredation of our society is evident in the lack of respect shown toward authority of any kind. And the breakdown of authority is also evident in those who claim to have that authority, yet they themselves are morally corrupt. (Just look at the the conduct of many teachers, judges, police, parents, etc. Those who should be good examples of uprightness and moral behavior are just the opposite.) This in turn, is a justification on the part of society to disrespect, bad mouth and degrade educators, police, clergy, parents, judges, senators, presidents, anyone with a rank, office or title. "Truth has fallen in the public square and uprightness cannot enter."
We as a society are paying the price for the relativism that began in the 60's and now has permeated every facet of our culture.
Heavendweller
_____________________________
See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. I John 3:1
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/19/2008 6:53:58 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4986
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lufia
As ben said, the important thing here is the heart. God knows our heart and if we say dude in a disrespectful way He will know for sure. So i think it's between you and God. It's personal.
I think I agree with this. I remember hearing someone get upset at the phrase, "Jesus Rocks!" IIRC, they said that originally rock and roll was a euphemism for having sex, so it was disrespectful. However, no one means it that way, if it ever meant that to begin with. I don't know. I'm not old enough to know that.
_____________________________
<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/19/2008 8:09:38 PM
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schupfNoodle
Posts: 95
Joined: 7/27/2006
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Well how did John and Peter address Jesus? They were with him personally. They were his close friends.. Or James the brother of Jesus?
Jesus was their Lord ans Savior and was given due respect.
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Does dude fit in here?
Let me quote crankius again. He can write it better than I do.
quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
While He can descend to us, it is not right for us to place Him into lowliness. We are not high--it is not our place to condescend to God.
When we speak to Him knowingly with such base terminology, it is us condescending to Him as if we are superior and He is inferior, or even as if we are equals--which we are clearly not.
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/19/2008 9:27:55 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
Joined: 6/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
It seems a lot of this has to do with age and maturity level. The more a person matures (mentally and spiritually) the more they understand the concept of reverence.
Or maybe they gain a greater understanding of the intimacy of God.
"Dude", and similar addressing, is not a sign of immaturity in the believer. Nor is it a sign of maturity. It's a personal conviction, and a personal characteristic.
It's just that I've only personally known one person over the age of 40 to use the word "dude" more than sparodically...even in reference to God. He likes hanging around teenagers and considers himself a sort of "lay" youth-leader. Only, instead of leading the youth he's involved with, he's more concerned with being "buds" with them.  He's also that way with his kids...a friend but not a father...and they're insufferable and disliked by both youths and adults in the church. But that's beside the point.
He's one of the reasons for this problem of lack of respect and reverance that's rampant among today's younger generation...people like him and this preacher whose comment started this whole thread. When kids see the "leaders" bringing God down to their level, and attempting to "communicate" with the kids using their immature vernacular, it just reinforces the habit. Not just that's it a habit, but it's become a worldview...a worldview that says, "I can make God anything I want Him to be."
Yeah, there were things we said when I was a kid that were particular to our generation. But you didn't hear the leadership using the same sort of language. But warm and fuzzy, feel-good, touchy-feely hippies raised kids to thumb their noses at "the man" and taught them that we are all on the same level, playing field...including God.
< Message edited by Peter_Gunn -- 6/19/2008 9:35:18 PM >
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/19/2008 11:42:36 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1723
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
Only, instead of leading the youth he's involved with, he's more concerned with being "buds" with them. He's also that way with his kids...a friend but not a father...and they're insufferable and disliked by both youths and adults in the church.
I agree that this is a problem! And also, as you say, people like this, and the pastor in the OP, who are doing it to "fit in" should not be doing it. I can't say for sure, since I don't know them or their hearts, but it seems like they're faking who they are, both to those around them, and even more importantly, to God. And that is, of course, never good!
quote:
Yeah, there were things we said when I was a kid that were particular to our generation. But you didn't hear the leadership using the same sort of language.
I would hope not. Unless the leadership genuinely used that language, if it was truly who they were, then it wouldn't be proper for them to do so. Well, not if they were trying to pass it off as sincere.
But, if a person is genuinely using a certain style of talking, and they are genuinely speaking to honor and glorify God, and they are not doing it to "cause a stir" or "be hip," then how can we say they are doing wrong?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/20/2008 7:13:33 AM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
Joined: 6/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Only, instead of leading the youth he's involved with, he's more concerned with being "buds" with them. He's also that way with his kids...a friend but not a father...and they're insufferable and disliked by both youths and adults in the church.
I agree that this is a problem! And also, as you say, people like this, and the pastor in the OP, who are doing it to "fit in" should not be doing it. I can't say for sure, since I don't know them or their hearts, but it seems like they're faking who they are, both to those around them, and even more importantly, to God. And that is, of course, never good!
quote:
Yeah, there were things we said when I was a kid that were particular to our generation. But you didn't hear the leadership using the same sort of language.
I would hope not. Unless the leadership genuinely used that language, if it was truly who they were, then it wouldn't be proper for them to do so. Well, not if they were trying to pass it off as sincere.
But, if a person is genuinely using a certain style of talking, and they are genuinely speaking to honor and glorify God, and they are not doing it to "cause a stir" or "be hip," then how can we say they are doing wrong?
But it does "cause a stir" and it does sound like someone's trying to "be hip" when they refer to the almighty God as "dude"...and it's offensive to many people. So why? Hopefully one thinks at least a milli-second before they speak, so they must be using words purposefully. Why must they choose language that is so dividing? People that refer to God in a loose, irrerverant way such as that, are not being sensitive to the other ears around them.
I think it's a very selfish, me-centered, attention-grabbing attitude to have. But that pretty much sums up the people I hear using it just in general conversation anyway...even more so for the ones using it in reference to God...they're doing it for shock-value. That's one of the oldest tricks in the teenager's "manual".
< Message edited by Peter_Gunn -- 6/20/2008 7:20:06 AM >
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/20/2008 7:17:37 AM
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schupfNoodle
Posts: 95
Joined: 7/27/2006
Status: offline
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The names and titles of God and Jesus have meanings. They're not just there without reason. We don't just address our Master and Lord with any name we choose.
Leviticus 22:32:
32Neither shall ye profane my holy name; but I will be hallowed among the children of Israel: I am the LORD which hallow you,
Matt 6
9"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
I like the NIV version better.
Lev 22
31 "Keep my commands and follow them. I am the LORD. 32 Do not profane my holy name. I must be acknowledged as holy by the Israelites. I am the LORD, who makes you holy
There's something about God's name.
Psalm 145
A psalm of praise. Of David.
1 I will exalt you, my God the King;
I will praise your name for ever and ever.
2 Every day I will praise you
and extol your name for ever and ever.
21 My mouth will speak in praise of the LORD.
Let every creature praise his holy name
for ever and ever.
In the name of Jesus we are baptized, healed, our prayers are answered and demons are driven out. We are washed, sanctified, justified n the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
I don't think that will happen in the name of 'dude'. There's no power in dude's name.
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/20/2008 7:33:29 AM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: schupfNoodle
I don't think that will happen in the name of 'dude'. There's no power in dude's name.
 Love it! Just brings to mind Bill and Ted!
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/20/2008 9:00:59 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4986
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: offline
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quote:
Hopefully one thinks at least a milli-second before they speak, so they must be using words purposefully.
You would hope so, but I think too often people don't think before they speak.
_____________________________
<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/20/2008 11:15:05 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1723
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
But it does "cause a stir" and it does sound like someone's trying to "be hip" when they refer to the almighty God as "dude"...and it's offensive to many people.
Now, if someone was doing it after they had been talked to, and they understood that someone in the group they were with would be offended by it, then absolutely I would agree they would be wrong. However, I don't think it'd be wrong if they didn't know anybody would be upset. I can easily picture certain groups where public prayer may take place, and "dude" would be perfectly acceptable.
I agree that would should think of who we are around before we pray publicly. But at the same time, we shouldn't fake who we are, so if we are honestly the kind of person who can say "dude" to God and mean it just as reverently as can be, then we should feel comfortable doing so until we learn that we have upset someone.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/21/2008 1:03:43 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7785
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
Jhud, the fact that you use a police officer and a judge as an example suggests to me that you have a, perhaps, one-sided view of God. I may very well be wrong, and I'm certainly not making a judgment of your relationship with Him, but the impression I'm getting is that you see God as, well, a police officer and judge, looking over our shoulders, making sure we don't do anything wrong, finger on the "Smite" button if we mess up.
Obviously, there are times in our relationship and walk with God that things are more serious. Some folks have said in this thread that they couldn't imagine calling God "dude" during Job's encounter with Him at the end of the book of Job, and I agree. However, not every prayer we have is like that! God is our daddy. Sometimes, yeah, daddy needs to enforce respect and honor, but sometimes, he need to play with his kids, read them stories, tuck them into bed, be loving and caring and tender. He is above us, but He is close, too. He is our King and Lord, and He is our daddy. And He is not going to crack down on us because we honestly and openly talk with Him from our hearts, no matter what the world's standards of "respect" may be.
Well, first off I think it is important to note that God is a judge, (and compares Himself to one) so I don't think one misspeaks to call Him that, though of course that is not all He is.
And my point was much the same as when Jesus would say - earthly authorities are like this...so this is true all the more with God...
In the same way, as much as we wouldn't use casually indifferent terms to refer to those with a small bit of authority, why would we do so to Him who has supreme authority? Indeed, we are specifically commanded not to use His name in vain. I have always understood that to mean that we aren't to be casual in our reference to God, but speak of Him in accordance with who He is - not because He will 'smite' us, but because we reverence Him.
And I also understand this as a parent. I love to hear 'daddy' from anyone of my four children. I also accept, "Dad", "Father", or "Sir".
I wouldn't expect, nor would they say without receiving a certain response, "Hey, dude" or Jack, or any other moniker that would say, "Hey, you're just another guy I happen to be acquainted with."
Part of it also has to do with the fact that I am very Orwellian in my approach to language. By that I don't mean 'Orwellian' in the Big Brother sense, but in the sense that words have meaning, and that our minds our in part shaped by the words we use.
I think the West, Americans in particular, nor longer understand the terms 'Lord', reverence, venerate, deference and fealty, all words that we should become acquainted with again as believers so that the concepts aren't completely lost to us.
I am not trying to make anyone feel bad for using 'dude', I just think like all words, it has proper and improper uses.
The best use of 'dude' is of course in reference to The Dude, or the Dudester, or El Dudearino if you aren't into that whole brevity thing.
But the dude ain't Jesus.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/21/2008 1:22:34 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6993
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SusieD
quote:
Would you pray like that in front of your Bible study knowing that some of them might be offended?
I don’t understand why you would have someone put on a false self, so that you won’t be offended. It seems really self-centered! I would rather hear someone who can talk to the Lord like a friend than someone who puts on spiritual airs. When I hear someone pray and suddenly their voice and manner of speech changes, it sounds to me like they are being false. To me it sounds like they are trying to impress those around them with their “spirituality”.
Who is talking about being false. He did it knowing that it would be offensive to at least one member (his mother).
So if I start a prayer with "Heavenly Father" I'm Spiritual airs or trying to impress someone?
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/21/2008 2:57:58 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1723
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
Well, first off I think it is important to note that God is a judge, (and compares Himself to one) so I don't think one misspeaks to call Him that, though of course that is not all He is.
*emphasis added*
Ah, OK. I misunderstood you, and I apologize. Obviously part of who God is, is a just and perfect judge. I'm just apprehensive whenever I hear people say that about Him, without reference to any other of His attributes, since I fear that those who do so may have a misconception of God's nature. Obviously this isn't the case here, which I am quite happy for, and I apologize if my comments seemed antagonistic in any way.
quote:
In the same way, as much as we wouldn't use casually indifferent terms to refer to those with a small bit of authority, why would we do so to Him who has supreme authority?
Because God is not always "on duty" with us. A lot of what we see in Scripture, in terms of mere mortals addressing the Almighty Himself, is when God is doing something specific and direct, exerting His power in a real, tangible way. But the people in Scripture had real lives, just as you and I, and I'm sure there were times in those lives when their relationship with God was more casual (I don't like that term, because it's not quite what I'm looking for, but it's 3 AM, and it's all I can think of!). They knew God was worthy of constant fear and trembling, but they also knew that God did not demand that of them, unlike many of the foreign false deities seemed to.
quote:
we are specifically commanded not to use His name in vain. I have always understood that to mean that we aren't to be casual in our reference to God, but speak of Him in accordance with who He is - not because He will 'smite' us, but because we reverence Him.
I've always taken it as a command to not swear (literally, the promise-kind of swearing) by God's name frivolously, but that's a matter for another thread. ; )
And, as I've said in previous posts, there are times, for certain individuals, where "dude" is not casual, it is meaningful, and the heart attitude behind it is reverential.
quote:
And I also understand this as a parent. I love to hear 'daddy' from anyone of my four children. I also accept, "Dad", "Father", or "Sir".
I wouldn't expect, nor would they say without receiving a certain response, "Hey, dude" or Jack, or any other moniker that would say, "Hey, you're just another guy I happen to be acquainted with."
If you wouldn't want your children calling you by your first name (I assume that's Jack? If it's not, I'm not sure what you mean by the Jack thing...), then, if I may ask, do you address our Savior as Jesus in your prayers?
quote:
I think the West, Americans in particular, nor longer understand the terms 'Lord', reverence, venerate, deference and fealty, all words that we should become acquainted with again as believers so that the concepts aren't completely lost to us.
I agree, though, for good and bad, I have been placed in a church where the worship of God is placed very highly, so I'm a bit less in-touch with the lack of worshipful attitude that you speak about.
However, I don't think the occasional, genuine and proper use of "dude" will destroy those concepts. It certainly can, but so can "high" speech, if done falsely.
I like the Lebowski reference, by the way. ; )
quote:
So if I start a prayer with "Heavenly Father" I'm Spiritual airs or trying to impress someone?
You are if you are only starting that way because you think it's what the other people listening want to hear. If not, then no, probably not. : )
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/21/2008 3:10:06 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1723
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
If you've ever read any of my prayers in the prayer forum, then you'd know that is how I naturally talk to Him. If I understood SusieD correctly, that appears to be putting on Spiritual airs.
Well, if you understood her correctly, then I would disagree with her. "Putting on airs," if I understand the term correctly, requires the person doing the "putting" to be faking something. If someone genuinely prays a certain way, no matter who is or is not listening, then I don't see how anyone can say any airs are being put on.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/21/2008 4:36:55 AM
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DreadPirateRandy
Posts: 7729
Joined: 6/5/2006
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Wasn't the personal name of God, YHWH, so sacred, that everyone feared even uttering it? Shouldn't we have that same respect?
I'm not saying "dude" is disrespectful, but it just doesn't sound... reverent.
_____________________________
The lunatic, the lover, and the poet, are of imagination all compact.
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/21/2008 5:47:31 AM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2403
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrapeApe
Wasn't the personal name of God, YHWH, so sacred, that everyone feared even uttering it? Shouldn't we have that same respect?
I'm not saying "dude" is disrespectful, but it just doesn't sound... reverent.
Moses wasn't afraid to utter it when he got it. That's why he received the name. To speak it.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/21/2008 7:20:24 AM
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blue1914
Posts: 407
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Pastor told us that times are changing and the church needs to loosen up a bit.
I don't know that it's so much about the times changing as the fact that when we read the Bible in the context of Jesus' day and apply the commonly used colloquialisms of that day, I don't think it's outside of the bounds of reason to conclude that possibly some people in his life referred to Him with a similar level of familiarity.
Here's what I mean-Jesus hung out with the dregs of society-the tax cheats, the prostitutes, the real bad people. While some of them respected him, some downright did not. We don't see Jesus blasting any of them with bolts of lightning, instead we see Him blessing them and coaxing them to him with love and gentleness.
Jesus partied-he even drank (gasp) wine (and not the communion grape juice kind). He was a real person who real people could relate to. In 1st century Israel, there may not have been the term "dude" as it's used today but I'm pretty sure there was an equivalent of some form. I'll bet Jesus was called it on more than one occasion and guess what-I'll be HE didn't take offense to it. That said, I really don't think that He would have a hard time with one of His kids addressing Him in the familiar vernacular.
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/21/2008 7:31:46 AM
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blue1914
Posts: 407
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Check out Genesis 18. Abraham is "reasoning" with God. Abraham admits to being nothing more than dust and never forgets that he is talking to the Almighty God. Were Abraham and God friends? I think they were.
Actually this is a great example because of what happened there-Abraham is begging God to spare the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and in do so doing, he acknowledges that he really has no right to even ask the questions he does. That said, the way he asks the questions implies a level of familiarity with God that I don't know that I would be comfortable with. Abraham told God He was wrong (or at least implied that He would be if He took the course of action He was planning). He tested the bounds of ANY person's patience with his cat-and-mouse questioning. He really made it clear that He was talking to a friend-and his Friend answered him in kind. No he did not address him in a salutory sense with familiarity, but the tenor of the conversation was as familiar as they come.
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RE: Dude?!??!?!?!?!?! - 6/21/2008 7:53:15 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6993
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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Abraham told God he was wrong and Jesus partied? Are we reading the same Bible?
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Lest anyone think I don't like KJV, think again. It is the translation I grew up with, and its poetic meter is like music to my ears. Much of my scripture memory is in KJV. But I also realize that it's not a divinely inspired translation and not the arbiter of all things Holy. No, I don't mean the Holy Scriptures are not the arbiter, merely that this one translation is not.
