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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/13/2008 12:36:34 AM
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jennycnails
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Thank you sooooo much. I need to here things like that and I will take that advice and keep you informed.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/13/2008 11:33:28 AM
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McFatty
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Conquered
quote:
I don't like overcomplicating issues like this. The "few" are the believers. The "many" are the non-believers. It's pretty simple. There's no reason to use this verse as justification to question the salvation of professing Christians.
I think the OP and others here would like to point out that not all professing Christians are what you would call "the believers."
But why are we so worried about deciding for ourselves if someone's telling the truth when the profess their Christianity? Everyone's so skeptical! God knows the hearts of all; that should be enough. I don't care about the liars who use Christ's name for their own gain. Jesus can take it. He has before! Those people aren't believers and aren't who I'm talking about. I think there are more believers in the world than people want to give credit for.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/13/2008 3:36:08 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
I hope this clears things up for you!
God Bless!!
Are you saying that all it takes for a non-cancelable ticket to heaven is to say Jesus is Lord?
If not then what are you trying to say?
I am saying that not everyone who thinks they are Christian really are.
Thanks
RC
You have to believe it in your heart. The absolute millisecond you believe that Jesus Christ is your lord and savior and believe that he was raised from the dead you get born again. That's when you get your holy spirit. That is when you get born again and gain your incorruptible seed and inheritance. That is all it takes to make it to Heaven. Now there are rewards for remaining faithful and doing things in the Bible. I can teach you more about these rewards if you want, but some of them include the 5 crowns that believers will get if they stay faithful.
Once you get the holy spirit you are Heaven-bound. This is the way it is and it's the way it has to be according to the scripture in the Bible.
That is an absolutely dangerous doctrine, because you will end up teaching security to a church full of lost folks who will be turned away by Christ as He did in Matthew 7.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/13/2008 3:41:36 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Godddy
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
Once you get the holy spirit you are Heaven-bound. This is the way it is and it's the way it has to be according to the scripture in the Bible.
J am not going to try to slide this thread into a debate about absolute eternal security.
The question seems to be; how many filks think they have the indwelling of the Spirit, but do not; as indicated by Matt. 7?
And I say 'Many" just like Christ said.about those who think they are saved but practice iniquity.
Thanks
RC
When we recieve Christ as Lord and Savior, We recieve the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
Ok, and how do you know this has happened, or does one just suppose that this happened (recieving Christ as Lord and Savior).
How do you know that you are not like those folks in Matthew 7 that were absolutely positive that they were saved when they were not.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/13/2008 3:45:29 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jennycnails
I love Jesus with all my heart. I'm stuggling with addiction to pain pills. He tells me so strongly to throw them away or dont buy them and I do it anyway. I have so much faith in him and believe in him so much. Why do I keep doing this and will I make it to heaven if he came now? Please tell me what you think. I need your help and support.
Jesus Himself said;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
So I would encourage anyone in your circumstance to;
(2Co 13:5) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
And maybe, just maybe go back to square one and start all over again.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/13/2008 8:31:04 PM
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TheBibleTRUTH
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
I hope this clears things up for you!
God Bless!!
Are you saying that all it takes for a non-cancelable ticket to heaven is to say Jesus is Lord?
If not then what are you trying to say?
I am saying that not everyone who thinks they are Christian really are.
Thanks
RC
You have to believe it in your heart. The absolute millisecond you believe that Jesus Christ is your lord and savior and believe that he was raised from the dead you get born again. That's when you get your holy spirit. That is when you get born again and gain your incorruptible seed and inheritance. That is all it takes to make it to Heaven. Now there are rewards for remaining faithful and doing things in the Bible. I can teach you more about these rewards if you want, but some of them include the 5 crowns that believers will get if they stay faithful.
Once you get the holy spirit you are Heaven-bound. This is the way it is and it's the way it has to be according to the scripture in the Bible.
That is an absolutely dangerous doctrine, because you will end up teaching security to a church full of lost folks who will be turned away by Christ as He did in Matthew 7.
Thanks
RC
It's not dangerous doctrine at all. Once you get holy spirit it's incorruptible seed. Do I really need to quote Romans 10:9-10 again?
Romans 10:9-10
9) That is thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
It says... "thou shalt be saved," what part of that is so hard to understand?
It doesn't say thou shalt maybe be saved, if your lucky. It says thou shalt be saved. And how do you get this salvation? By believing that Jesus Christ is your lord and that God raised him from the dead. It's easy, it's simple, and once you do it you get born again and will be with God for eternity.
Few is a relative term. Because out of the billions and billions of people... only few will get born again by believing.
rcjames you are trying to support a wrong teaching that will only put people in bondage, fearing over their salvation. God did not want us to do that and his word clearly states that once you get born again by believing, your seed is incorruptible and you will be in heaven. There is no other way.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/13/2008 8:38:32 PM
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TheBibleTRUTH
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jennycnails
I love Jesus with all my heart. I'm stuggling with addiction to pain pills. He tells me so strongly to throw them away or dont buy them and I do it anyway. I have so much faith in him and believe in him so much. Why do I keep doing this and will I make it to heaven if he came now? Please tell me what you think. I need your help and support.
God loves you, he understands your weakness and wants to help you. Just make an effort to stop with God behind you and you will succeed. Go to God and ask him how he wants you to quit and he'll show you the best way for you. :D
And also if you believe Romans 10:9-10 you will be in heaven. So have great peace in your heart and be comforted. Our God is a loving god and will never forsake us.
Hebrews 4:16
16) Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/13/2008 8:57:58 PM
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bzirk
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I've really thought long and hard about asking this question, because I don't want to take this thread off-topic. But I'm curious if some of you believe it's possible to have assurance of salvation and if so, how? Is it through continued evidence of good works or never failing greatly at something or is it acknowledging that we cannot finish what the Spirit began?
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/13/2008 8:58:40 PM
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armydude
Posts: 16900
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
Do I really need to quote Romans 10:9-10 again?
Romans 10:9-10
9) That is thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
It says... "thou shalt be saved," what part of that is so hard to understand? That part is very easy to understand. It also says that you have to believe in your heart. Only God can see the heart. Therefore only God can know whether or not a person that says the right words actually means them. And Jesus said "few", so I'd say He knows better than we. So what do we do now? I'd say speculation on who's saved and who's not does no good. The best course of action would be to work with those that make the profession of faith so that they understand what it means. That way they don't remain baby Christians.
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/14/2008 10:45:17 AM
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Godddy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I don't like overcomplicating issues like this. The "few" are the believers. The "many" are the non-believers. It's pretty simple. There's no reason to use this verse as justification to question the salvation of professing Christians.
Amen to that brother
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/14/2008 11:14:49 AM
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Godddy
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The question is do you believe God, not do you believe in God.
There are alot of people who say they are christians, but they don't believe God's word. [The Bible}
The Bible says Jesus was God in the flesh. He walked among us. And He died for our sins.
On the cross Jesus cried out {It Is Finished, } That means God-Jesus took all the sins passed, present, and future, to the cross, they were nailed in His flesh, covered in His blood, God doesn't look at sin anymore he sees the blood of Jesus.
All whose mind is on the Lord are in perfect peace, we must get our minds off our problems and put them on Jesus.
All the stuff thats keeping you in bondage will fall away.
The more of Jesus you get the less you will want or need drugs, cigerettes, the comfort the world offers you, is bondage, what God offers is freedom, from the world, and all its satanic traps.
Stop trying to do it on your own power, give it God power. Just seek God.,
One day you are going to wake up, free. Glory be to God.
Remember, Failure is not getting up and trying again.
I like to say each time I fall, I am like the giant, each time he hit the ground he got up stronger. You will too. God Bless
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 2:27:45 AM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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RCJAMES, I was wondering do you know for sure you are saved. If it is so hard to become a christian how do you know you will not be one of the ones that think they are christians and get turned away? Salvation is of God. Believe in Christ and what He did for you (taking our place on the cross, paying our sin debt) to the point of your life changing and you become a Christian. There is nothing else we can do. Believe and repent thats it! We will not become sinless but we will sin less.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 2:29:40 AM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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RCJAMES, I was wondering do you know for sure you are saved. If it is so hard to become a christian how do you know you will not be one of the ones that think they are christians and get turned away? Salvation is of God. Believe in Christ and what He did for you (taking our place on the cross, paying our sin debt) to the point of your life changing and you become a Christian. There is nothing else we can do. Believe and repent thats it! We will not become sinless but we will sin less. You have to be careful, I don't want people to get a false sense of security, but you don't want everyone spending their whole life doubting if they are saved or not. If you are focusing on yourself and whether or not you are saved how can you serve God?
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 6:41:13 AM
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armydude
Posts: 16900
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From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
RCJAMES, I was wondering do you know for sure you are saved. If it is so hard to become a christian how do you know you will not be one of the ones that think they are christians and get turned away? Salvation is of God. Believe in Christ and what He did for you (taking our place on the cross, paying our sin debt) to the point of your life changing and you become a Christian. There is nothing else we can do. Believe and repent thats it! We will not become sinless but we will sin less.
Who here said anything about salvation being hard? Salvation is a gift. I haven't seen anything from anyone here (including RCJames) to go against that statement. But the fact remains that there are a lot of people that simply got a good feeling and didn't get Jesus. How do you know the difference? If there's a difference, you know.
I'm going to bring your attention to something in the verses that RCJames keeps bringing up...
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
What is the focus of the person that has not truly trusted in Jesus? That person's focus is in his own good works. What is the focus of the person that has truly trusted in Jesus. That person's focus is on Jesus. To quote the hymn, "My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. I dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus' name."
To put trust in your works (as is evidenced in Jesus' own teaching) is a demonstration of your lack of faith in Jesus.
_____________________________
No act of kindness is too small when measured by nail-pierced hands.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 10:06:03 AM
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rcjames
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Being saved is not hard;
(Mat 11:29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. (Mat 11:30) For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
But it being easy does not negage that the word teaches there are many who think they are saved who are just not saved.
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
RCJAMES, I was wondering do you know for sure you are saved
I trust that I am saved because I am a new creature in Christ, my desires became different, my actions became different, my thought pattterns became different that before. I feel that Paul's hope for me as a Believer has taken place;
(Eph 1:18) The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
And for sure I know of a specific change in myself that the Word speaks to;
(Eph 2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
I now not only walk in those good works, but desire earnestly to do so.
When I do err, I come under strong conviction until I am obedient to Scripture;
(1Jn 1:9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
And when I am obedient to Scripture and cofess my error, I know and fell within my very core that I am forgiven.
Now I can speak the truth of the Gospel with all bolkness and assurity for as Paul;
(Rom 1:16) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Now based on my belief in Christ as the Son of God, the above things and more than I have time to list I do have the hope of eternal life.
(Col 1:4) Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
(Col 1:5) For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
(Col 1:6) Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
And even with all of this I still daily adhere to a couple of other Scriptures that God gave us to help us;
(2Co 13:5) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
and because of the "Depart from Me for I never knew you passage" in Matthew 7, I also;
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
I hope this answers your question.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 10:28:48 AM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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Sorry RC I must have read your posts wrong. I know salvation is not hard, and I know a lot of people say they were converted and really were not. But some of you guys are making it sound like we cannot know for sure. John said "I write these things that you may know." Maybe I was just reading things wrongly. There will be a lot of people who will say, I prayed a prayer, or Lord I went to church, Lord I was baptized, etc etc. If you truly put your trust in Jesus, you WILL be saved. And as a result your life will be different. Not just your relationship with God but with sin. I know, I hate sin, and I want to please my Father. I mean how can I not want to please the one that bore all my sins (and boy are they many) and had separation from his Father for me (a little dot in eternity). WOW what an awesome God we serve. If you are a Christian, you can't help but want to serve him. It is just in you to do so. That does not mean we will not sin, but you will not be happy when you do so.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 10:31:35 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5668
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
Sorry RC I must have read your posts wrong. I know salvation is not hard, and I know a lot of people say they were converted and really were not. But some of you guys are making it sound like we cannot know for sure. John said "I write these things that you may know." Maybe I was just reading things wrongly. There will be a lot of people who will say, I prayed a prayer, or Lord I went to church, Lord I was baptized, etc etc. If you truly put your trust in Jesus, you WILL be saved. And as a result your life will be different. Not just your relationship with God but with sin. I know, I hate sin, and I want to please my Father. I mean how can I not want to please the one that bore all my sins (and boy are they many) and had separation from his Father for me (a little dot in eternity). WOW what an awesome God we serve. If you are a Christian, you can't help but want to serve him. It is just in you to do so. That does not mean we will not sin, but you will not be happy when you do so.
Nice post.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 11:27:41 AM
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bzirk
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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No offense to RC, but I must have read his posts wrongly as well. The way it was worded did give the impression that you cannot have assurance of salvation.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 11:37:56 AM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
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From: Augusta, GA
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The key for me is that we're all supposed to work out our own salvation. We aren't supposed to question that of others we meet, unless I'm missing something. I think that, especially, is the kind of judgment Jesus warned against.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 11:57:52 AM
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bzirk
Posts: 2915
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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Certainly we are to work out our salavation, i.e., we are to work out our understanding of our salvation and relationship with the Lord. That's the point of the scripture in Philippians 2:12,13. That doesn't preclude the instruction for us to observe certain boundaries of behavior and be accountable to it as well as hold our brothers in the Church accountable to it. But holding someone accountable to the truth by calling their behavior into question is a far cry from making a pronouncement on their souls.
What is repugnant and not Biblical is to raise the specter that someone cannot have assurance that they are saved. The scriptures make it clear much more than once that we can have that assurance and not an assurance that is of ourselves, of our works. Paul even chewed the Galatians out for wavering on that and looking to themselves for signs of assurance.
As to the point of the thread, the scripture say "few," so it's few. But as others have already pointed out several times, 'few' is a relative term.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 2:07:01 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5668
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
What is repugnant and not Biblical is to raise the specter that someone cannot have assurance that they are saved. The scriptures make it clear much more than once that we can have that assurance and not an assurance that is of ourselves, of our works. Paul even chewed the Galatians out for wavering on that and looking to themselves for signs of assurance.
Not really agruing with you bzirk, but what about the folks in Matthew 7 who were sure they were saved; but were not as Christ siaid I never knew you?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 2:13:38 PM
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bzirk
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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RC,
Scripture says those people exist, so certainly I believe they do. But their existence does not preclude those who are indeed saved from having assurance of that salvation. That's all I'm saying.
I think what's happened in the church is that scriptural accountability has been denigrated by the world to mean condemnation. This perverted what it means to be accountable to the truth. Can accountability be chastisement? Yep, but it should never be condemnation.
BTW, I'm not saying you're doing that.
_____________________________
may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 3:17:05 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5668
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
RC,
Scripture says those people exist, so certainly I believe they do. But their existence does not preclude those who are indeed saved from having assurance of that salvation. That's all I'm saying.
I think what's happened in the church is that scriptural accountability has been denigrated by the world to mean condemnation. This perverted what it means to be accountable to the truth. Can accountability be chastisement? Yep, but it should never be condemnation.
BTW, I'm not saying you're doing that.
agree, but since Christ said "Many" I think the possibility of false assumption should be considered.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/16/2008 3:53:54 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2915
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
RC,
Scripture says those people exist, so certainly I believe they do. But their existence does not preclude those who are indeed saved from having assurance of that salvation. That's all I'm saying.
I think what's happened in the church is that scriptural accountability has been denigrated by the world to mean condemnation. This perverted what it means to be accountable to the truth. Can accountability be chastisement? Yep, but it should never be condemnation.
BTW, I'm not saying you're doing that.
agree, but since Christ said "Many" I think the possibility of false assumption should be considered.
Thsnks
RC
Indeed we should consider the possibility of false assumptions about lots of things. The Lord and His written word should be sought to do that. We should emulate the Bereans, and in doing that, we can call bull on some things that are done in the name of the Lord but are not really of the Lord. I'm sure the Bereans were preapred to admonish or denounce Paul if he had been out of line with scripture.
I just take exception to the specter of not being able to have assurance we are saved when we are saved. In fact, the teaching of assurance is vital to someone understanding if they are indeed saved.
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may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Few going to heaven - 7/17/2008 12:42:50 PM
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LawrenceJCaldwell
Posts: 33
Joined: 7/3/2008
Status: offline
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Great exchanges going on here. I am so glad that folks are willing to drop tradition and examine the questions strictly from Scripture. Regarding the question of "many vs. few" in Matthew 7, let me offer this:
There is an historical precedent for this in the Bible. Although the Word of God is filled with hundreds of prophecies concerning Jesus, "few" believed during His time on earth. "Many" knew the truth and did not believe. Instead, they believed their tradition, that Messiah would come and deliver them from Roman bondage immediately into God's kingdom. Didn't happen that way.
Regardless of what we want to believe is the numerical equivalent of "few", the fact remains that there will indeed be "few" AND we know who we are, as the last few posts rightly judged from the Word.
_____________________________
Lawrence J. Caldwell
Author & Speaker
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