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scottmcc1 -> Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/2/2008 7:02:36 AM)

Would anyone like to participate in a discussion group on a Christian devotional book called:

Celebration of Discipline by Richard J. Foster

We could spend a week discussing each chapter. Then after we finish the book continue the discussion as long as there was interest.

The book covers: meditation, prayer, fasting, study, simplicity, solitude, submission, service, confession, worship, guidance and celebration.



alias007 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/2/2008 5:51:37 PM)

I think a book discussion might be neat. I'll have to try and finish up one of the books I'm reading before I can take on another, but I'll look into the one you mentioned.



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/3/2008 5:43:04 AM)

Even with just 2 I think this would be productive. The book is very good at teaching a closer walk with Jesus.



granolagirl -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/4/2008 1:22:08 PM)

I think I need to read this book. I have it and I started it a long time ago, but I think I only got past the first three chapters or so.
When were you planning on starting?



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/4/2008 8:44:04 PM)

granolagril,

I will set Monday June 16th as the start date. That will gave alias007 and others time to buy the book and receive it by mail.

There are 13 chapters so 13 weeks or a 1/4 of a year. My edition has 171 pages so it would not be hard at all to keep up.

The chapters are:
1) The Spiritual Disciplines: Door to Liberation

PART 1 THE INWARD DISCIPLINES
2) Meditation
3) Prayer
4) Fasting
5) Study

PART 2 THE OUTWARD DISCIPLINES
6) Simplicity
7) Solitude
8) Submission
9) Service

PART 3 THE CORPORATE DISCIPLINES
10) Confession
11) Worship
12) Guidance
13) Celebration



alias007 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/4/2008 10:32:40 PM)

I ordered the book recently so it should be in by the 16th. I'm looking forward to reading and discussing it.



granolagirl -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/4/2008 10:34:15 PM)

Cool! I'm looking forward to it.

If you could, would you send me a PM to remind me? My "planner" consists of a Post It note and the memory part of my braind has issues.[sm=crazy.gif][sm=popsigh.gif][sm=sidesmile.gif]



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/5/2008 8:01:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: granolagirl

Cool! I'm looking forward to it.

If you could, would you send me a PM to remind me? My "planner" consists of a Post It note and the memory part of my braind has issues.[sm=crazy.gif][sm=popsigh.gif][sm=sidesmile.gif]


I would be glad to.



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/14/2008 9:16:58 PM)

I read the 1st Chapter last night and look forward to posting and reading others comments Monday.



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/16/2008 9:01:08 PM)

Here are my notes from Chapter 1

Celebration of Discipline
1 Spiritual Disciplines:
Door to Liberation
I like the fact he wants to reach to the common person.

Purpose of the disciplines is liberation of self interest and fear joy flows from this..
Primary requirement is longing after God.

Inner attitude of heart is more critical than mechancs

key writers
St John of the Cross
Evelyn Underhill

The Disciplines allow us to place ourselves before God so He can transform us.

Law turns the disciplines into death.
Laws are used to control people.
Disciplines without law?

Trust Jesus to follow Him and not rules. To change ourselves and not the world.

_______________________________

He presents the idea that liberation comes from discipline. There is a concept in the Bible that to love God we will keep His commands. John 15:10. To love is to keep God's commands. To be disciplined is to be free. If we make a rule to be disciplined we are not free. If we let God lead then we are free.



alias007 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/17/2008 4:37:02 PM)

Here are mine:
The disciplines are not just for “spiritual giants,” they are for all of us. We need not be experts in theology to participate in the spiritual disciplines.

The spiritual disciplines shouldn’t be viewed as dull and boring. They can awaken a joy and wonder in us as we grow closer to God.

Two difficulties we face as we try to practice the spiritual disciplines:
1) Today’s generation is prejudiced against the nonmaterial world. It is often difficult for us to see beyond the physical world.
2) Today’s generation has not been properly taught the practical aspects of the disciplines.

The author’s describes how we often attempt to use our own willpower to try and combat sin in our lives rather than allowing Christ to cleanse us of our sins.
He calls it “will worship.” Interesting quote: “Will worship may produce an outward show of success for a time, but in the cracks and crevices of our lives our deep inner condition will eventually be revealed”

He cautions us not to turn the disciplines into laws.

I really liked the ending quote from Tolstoy:
“Everybody thinks of changing humanity and nobody thinks of changing himself.”



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/17/2008 10:20:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: alias007





The author’s describes how we often attempt to use our own willpower to try and combat sin in our lives rather than allowing Christ to cleanse us of our sins.
He calls it “will worship.” Interesting quote: “Will worship may produce an outward show of success for a time, but in the cracks and crevices of our lives our deep inner condition will eventually be revealed”



I like the idea of will worship also. We can't live for Jesus, only Jesus can live through us.

Will worship is I centered. While walking in the Spirit is Christ centered.
Hebrews 12:2 & Romans 8:6



granolagirl -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/17/2008 11:23:58 PM)

I liked this: "The purpose of the Disciplines is liberation from the stifling slavery to self-interest and fear." (pg. 2)
I also like on the bottom of page 5 where he talks about the slip of a careless word (from Matthew 12:34-36) and how it will reveal the true condition of the heart. Kind of scary if our hearts aren't in the right place and we are trying to hide it.

I had various things underlined but I'm not going to quote them all.
I also enjoyed his ideas about "will worship." I never thought of it that way before!



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/23/2008 6:25:47 AM)

Meditation is something I have been working on. But really what I have been doing is reflecting on the meaning of Scripture.

Here are some of the writers that were mentioned in the chapter on meditation.

Augustine
Francis of Assisi
Francois Fenelon
Madame Guyon
Bernard of Clairvaux'
Francis de Sales
Juliana of Norwich
Brother Lawrence
George Fox
John Woolman
Evelyan Underhill[
Thomas Merton
Frank Laubach
Thomas Kelly
Richard Rolle
Ignatius of Loyola - Spiritual Exercises
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Jo Kimmel - Pull the Plugs (Chapter 1 Steps to Prayer Power)
St. John of the Cross- "The Dark Night of the Soul"



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/24/2008 10:43:22 PM)

Here is a good way to meditate on the Scriptures. I have done this and did something like this before I knew about it.
http://www.valyermo.com/ld-art.html

And this is the link to the Spiritual Exercises. I have not used these.
http://www.nwjesuits.org/JesuitSpirituality/SpiritualExercises.html



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/26/2008 7:36:24 PM)

Here are my notes on Ch 2 Meditation
we learn to meditate by meditation
suggestions can make big difference
-find a place that is quiet from interuption
-ask God to speak to you through dreams.
- record your dreams
- ask God for the meanings

centering down
-give 5 to 10 minutes for exercise
give to God your concerns
release palms down. receive palms up
then spend the final moments in complete silence.
or breath out, breath in

-discovery of God in His creatures
ponder one part of creation carefully

Scripture would be the 3rd step
meditatio Scripturarum
study brings exegesis
meditation brings internalizing and personalizing

live the experience using all 5 senses

spend a week on a text, live with the chosen Scripture all day.
One thing I usually do is accept the Scripture as being for me

I don't like the walk in nature and leaving your body to talk to God. I don't think its healthy. God can meet us where we are.

Meditate on the current events of the world. Ask for insight to where they lead. Ask how to be salt & light in a decaying world.



mccrjill -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/28/2008 1:37:36 PM)

I like reading about meditation and that there aren't 14 points to go about it. You learn by doing it. Also, I like the way he compares TM and the new age type meditation with Christian meditation. This gives insight to where some people may be coming from. They want to detach from the stress and mess of life, but they have nothing then after they empty their minds. When Christians want to slow down and reflect, there is a Helper standing by saying "This is the way, walk in it." Jesus went away to be quiet and listen to His Father. He is our example and we can stop wherever we are or go somewhere by ourselves and stop to reflect and listen because He is closer than a brother.
Jill



alias007 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (6/30/2008 3:05:26 PM)

Here are my notes on the meditation chapter, sorry they are a bit late:

-Various meanings for meditation: listening to God's word, reflecting on God's works, rehearsing God's deeds, ruminating on God's laws, etc.

-Biblical figures who meditated often: Isaac, Eli, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Elijah

-Jesus made a habit of withdrawing to a quiet place to meditate

-The author defines Christian meditation as the ability to hear God's voice and obey His word

-The purpose of meditation: to develop a "familiar friendship with Jesus"

-Detach from the confusion and busy pace around us and form a rich attachment to God

-"Humans seem to have a perpetual tendence to have somebody else talk to God for them."

-Meditation can seem threatening because it boldly calls us to enter into the living presence of God for ourselves

-We learn to meditate by meditating

Types of meditation:
1) meditation on Scripture
2) re-collection or "centering down"
3) meditation upon the events of our time

I found this quote to be particularly fitting:
"Meditation is not a single act. It is a way of life."



mccrjill -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (7/4/2008 7:35:19 AM)

I did like the prayer chapter which was shorter (11 pages) - meditation ch. - 16 pages.
It was faith building and I appreciated the part of how to pray for people with sexual deviations; it is like a river that has overflowed its banks and to pray that the water will flow within the banks as God intended - marriage between one man and one woman.
He brought out that we shouldn't pray - "If it be your will." "They obviously believed that they knew what the will of God was before they prayed the prayer of faith."..."Their prayer was so positive that it often took the form of a direct, authoritative command: "Walk," "Be well," "Stand up." There's no room for indecisive "if it be Thy will" prayers.



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (7/4/2008 8:01:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: alias007

Here are my notes on the meditation chapter, sorry they are a bit late:


Don't worry about late posts. If one of us has a comment on a chapter in the past feel free to post.

I like the meditation as a way of life idea.
Isaiah 40:31-41:1
Yet those who wait for the LORD
Will gain new strength;
They will mount up with wings like eagles,
They will run and not get tired,
They will walk and not become weary.

Coastlands, listen to Me in silence,
And let the peoples gain new strength;



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (7/4/2008 8:50:39 AM)

I wanted to add a comment on meditation.

Elijah stated once that he .stood before God. 1 Kings 17:1

Elisha asked for a double portion of Elijah's anointing. He got the answer but he also. stated twice that he stood before God. 2 Kings 3:14 & 2 Kings 5:16

These 2 times Elisha mentioned that he stood before God could mean that he did this twice as much.



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (7/5/2008 3:15:27 PM)

Prayer
To pray is to change.
Mark 1:35 stands as a commentary on the lifestyle of Jesus.
Ps 63:1 early will I seek thee.
Acts 6:4 Devoted to prayer and the ministry of the word.

Prayer was their life of the people of the frontier of faith.

Train in prayer. I ride a bicycle and chart my distance and time, Maybe I should do that with prayer.
1 Cor3:9 We are God's fellow workers, Life is not set we work to make it.
Ex 32:14 The Lord changed His mind.
Jonah 3:10 God relented from what He declared.
Mark 16:20 the Lord worked with them.

I too have heard many excuses why there isn't answered prayer. But John 14:14 still stands.

Start small and work your way up.
Compassion allows faith to grow.
If we genuinely love, what we desire for others is beyond what we can give. This will cause us to pray.

Flow in prayer where love takes you.
If heaviness then wait.

visualize the answer. imagine the light of God bringing healing.

flash prayers pray for the people you meet and see



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (7/6/2008 8:44:01 AM)

Here are some notes I have on Types of prayer
Praise
Worship
Waiting
Quietness Listening to God
Pray the Scriptures
Petitions
Pray for countries
Pray for your ministry
Pray for your future
Pray for leaders
Watch and pray
Crying Supplication
ask forgiveness
Intercession
Standing in the gap
Prayer warier
Pray with my mind
Pray in the spirit
Prayer meetings
fasting
tongues

Types of Prayer
Supplication
Luke 11: 9 - 13, James 5: 17-18, 1 kings 8: 37-40, 54 - 55

Prayer of intercession

Genesis 18: 22 - 33 (Abraham) 1 Kings 18: 41 - 46 (Elijah) 2 Kings 4: 32-36 (Elisha) Acts 12: 1 - 18 (The early church)

Heb 7:25
Rom 8:26,27


Prayer of faith

Mark 11:12 - 14, Mark 11: 20 - 25, Luke 7: 1 - 10, James 5: 13 - 18, Matthew 9: 18 - 26


Prayer of agreement

Genesis 11: 1-9, Matthew 18: 19-20, Exodus 17: 8-13, Psalm 133: 1-3, Acts 4:23, Hebrews 10: 24-25


Prayer of praise and thanksgiving

Psalm 100, Acts 16:16-34, Psalm 149:4-9, 1Thessalonians 5:15-19


Prayer of Penitence:

This is the next step in personal prayer, asking for forgiveness of sin. Psalm 51 is our best known prayer of penitence in the Bible.
Psalm 51.

Prevailing
This type of prayer is fervent, insistent and consistent until a breakthrough takes place. This can be a prayer for ourselves, our families, or for someone else. Example Believing for emotional or physical healing.


Consecration
When we pray a prayer of consecration, we are committing and dedicating of our life to God's use. To some this is a scary prayer because they are turning over their own personal will to that of the Lord.


Devotional - done durning devotions while reading Bible etc.

Spontaneous

Conversational

Acton - Prayer while doing something else.



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (7/9/2008 6:41:28 PM)

Fasting-
Whenever there is a form of spiritual power, law will take over.

Bible fasts
Moses
David
Elijah
Esther
Daniel
Anna
Paul
Jesus Christ

Great Christians who fasted
Martin Luther
John Calvin
John Knox
John Wesley
Jonathan Edwards
David Brainard
Charles Finney
Pastor Hsi of China
Asterius 4th century

Fasting refers to abstaining from spiritual food for a spiritual purpose.

40 day fast Jesus abstained from food not water. Luke 4:2f

Dan 10:3 no meat, wine, treats.

absolute fasts no food or drink
Ester 4:16 Acts 9:9
supernatural Deut 9:9 1 Kings 19:8

Corporate fast
Lev 23:27 Joel 2:15 2 Chron 20:1-4 Ezra 8:21-23 Zech 8:19

fast often
2 Cor 11:27

"When you fast" Mat 6:16
Matt 9:16 fast after Jesus leaves.
Acts 13:2,3 Matt 25:6

fasting not commanded but for those seeking a fuller walk with Jesus.

proper motive Matt 6:16-18
God initiated, God centered Lk 2:37
center fasting on God and not the blessing
Zech 7:5
fasting with worship Acts 13:2

fasting reveals what controls us.
Pride Ps 69:10
fasting will organize our priorities
1 Cor 6:12; 9:27

How to;
start with partial 24 hr fast [lunch to lunch] break fast with light meal of fruits & vegtibles with rejoicing

after a few weeks 24 hour normal fast. water only
devote eating time to meditation and prayer
move to 36 hr fast 3 meals. after this seek God's direction.



scottmcc1 -> RE: Anyone in Favor of Book Discussion (7/9/2008 6:48:49 PM)

Fasting is something I have struggled with.

I have fasted for 48 hours at the most. My problem is that I do a lot of activity and become exhausted if I don't eat.

When bicycling, hiking. in the Kansas City heat and humidity saps my strength quite a bit. I commute to work on a bicycle and walk a lot on my job. When I work overtime if I don't eat, again I become exhausted.

Do people take vacations to fast.

Note you don't have to be reading the book to post on this.

Any ideas on fasting while living a normal life. Or should I take vacation time to fast and pray?

My best experience has been the Daniel fast. No meat or tasty food.



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