|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
|
[Poll]
|
Do we have a right to enjoy God?
|
| Yes |
|
| No |
|
| All of the Above |
|
| Other |
|
Total Votes : 38
|
(last vote on : 7/26/2008 10:53:32 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: The questions Christians will ask! ; ) - 4/20/2008 4:53:16 PM
|
|
|
zoebob
Posts: 8859
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
Status: online
|
I realize the Westminster Catechism is not a quote from scripture but it is based on scripture.
I would say it's actually a responsibility
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The questions Christians will ask! ; ) - 4/20/2008 9:00:44 PM
|
|
|
FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 1061
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
|
I guess what this really comes back to is why we were created. We were not created to sin. We were not created primarily to give leadership to the earth (that job was not given to man until the man had a wife). So why were we made? Quite simply, to love God. We were told to "tend the garden"... but there were no weeds, there was no rain, and everything grew pretty much of it's own accord. So what was God after when He said to tend the garden? Make it look nice. It is my belief that man was created primarily to commune with, bring pleasure to, and derive pleasure from God. And yet, God finds pleasure in us even when we are spiritually immature, dealing with sin, and clueless about His immense beauty (Song of Solomon 1).quote:
To assume we won't have a reaction of some kind to enjoying God though is very limited understanding IMO. Do we have a right as in a DEMAND to enjoy God? No. But then I almost think it's a given as a believer to enjoy Him. Wouldn't it be odd not to? SavedbyGrace, excellent post... you have driven pretty close to the heart of what I am getting at (and yes, Bernard of Clairveaux is an amazing source of doctrine on this)...quote:
Are there such things as SAD Christians who don't enjoy God? (And who aren't bothered by that?) I suppose there are . . . Maybe long ago in dark, medieval monasteries, I don't know. This is the one thing I would argue with from your post. Thanks to the idea of Sola Scriptura (which has it's merits) many are more in love with their Bible than they are with God. As for those in the monasteries, quite a few of them were the most passionate, "on fire" God people you will ever see. They were so violently anti-"spirit of the age" that they fled the influences of society to take vows of poverty, silence, solitude and many others as a way to flee the carnality and sinfulness of the world around them. But that is a different topic, IMO.quote:
We do have the "privilege" to "delight ourselves" in the Lord (Ps.37:4), but along with that privilege comes the responsibility to (1) "trust in the LORD" and (2) "do good" (Ps. 37:3).
There is also a subtle difference between "enjoying God" (which is hedonism) and "delighting ourselves" in God (which is worship). Hedonism is only promoted in heathenism.
See, this is what I'm talking about. You have placed the idea of enjoying God is the catagory of sin, but if we DO something (delighting ourselves) it is Godly? Due to the doctrine of depravity, I would place those two ideas in exact opposite catagories. If we enjoy God, we are deriving pleasure from who He is, what He is, and what He has done... wheras if we derive pleasure from doing "godly things", we are attempting to fill the void where we want to feel God with all of our righteous acts that will never satisfy. Faith without works is dead... yet works without faith are useless in the longrun.quote:
Nowadays people stress their "rights" while ignoring their "responsibilities". This has become commonplace, and may have something to do with Christians talking about their "right" to enjoy God.
But our relationship is NOT a right, but a privilege, since what we have received from God is the gift of Himself, the gift of His Son, and the gift of the Holy Spirit. Our relationship is a priveledge. That relationship also bears certain rights (such as coming before the throne of grace with boldness) because we are no longer slaves, but sons.quote:
And if it is not a "right" then it is a privilege. Not necessarily. If it is not a right, it could be a duty, a priveledge, an invitation, or even a side-effect. It is an overly narrow view that you are taking of rights and priveledges.quote:
I would say it's actually a responsibility Agreed... but what a responsibility!
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The questions Christians will ask! ; ) - 4/21/2008 6:55:17 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 3987
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
No.
The only "right" anyone has is the right to be judged and thrown into hell.
Everything else is God's mercy shown to us. It is not a right.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The questions Christians will ask! ; ) - 4/21/2008 11:16:21 AM
|
|
|
bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
What is the chief end of man?
Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever
I agree with the Westminster Catechism on that one.
That's what I was going to say.
Actually, it's not so much a right but the reason we were created.
And if it is not a "right" then it is a privilege.
As to the wording of the Westminster Catechism, that is not an exact quotation from Scripture. It is a man-made approximation.
If you go through a Concordance and look up the word "enjoy" as used in the KJV (and the Westminster Catechism used the KJV) it either pertains to earthly things or "the pleasures of sin". Not once does Scripture say "enjoy God forever".
I never said it was scripture, only that I agreed with it.
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
|
|
|
|
RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 5/9/2008 1:21:17 PM
|
|
|
lovejoylynn2
Posts: 4
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: North of Boston
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Do you have a Scripture to back up the assertion that we have a right to enjoy God?
The Bible speaks of joy in the following passages:
27 "For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. 28 You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.'" -Acts 2
In that verse we see that we have joy In His presence because He saved us from hell and because we will spend eternity with Him.
9 "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full." -John 15
In that verse we see that we have joy because of Christ's love and will continue to have it if we follow His commandments.
We have no rights. We have been bought and paid for at an enormous price and because of that we are bondservants and are here to serve the One who owns us. We are to live to please God, to glorify Him, and give Him honor. In doing that we will have great joy because we our pleasing our Master. It's not about us, it's about Him.
The attitude of our hearts should be...
12 "How can I repay You, Lord for all Your goodness to me?" -Psalm 116
...not, "What pleasure can I get out of this?"
In cultivating hearts of gratitude, we will find joy!
We are sons and daughters adopted into God's family, so yes, we have the rights of a child who is a co-heir with Jesus. We definately have the 'right' to enjoy God.
Ga 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
We're not slaves, we're son's and friends of God. Children have the right to enjoy their father or more correctly, children have the natural desire to enjoy their father./ I wouldn't necessarily say that it's a 'right' God gave us, it's more a natural inclination to enjoy the one we are in love with./
Yes oh yes, how I agree! When you love how can you not enjoy? And what about "Delight thyself in the Lord.."? Our Father delights in His creation and oh how much He loves us ,that He would give His only Son! Truly, in my walk with the Lord, His joy is my strength and I think that qualifies for enjoyment!
I, too, agree that if we are His children, walking with Him, there is joy in the presence of the Lord! Is not "joy" part of "enjoy"? 
_____________________________
"Praise the Lord O my soul and forget not all His benefits !"
"The joy of the Lord is my strength!"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 5/10/2008 7:05:18 AM
|
|
|
faithfulservant_
Posts: 385
Joined: 3/6/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
original: lovejoylynn2
Yes oh yes, how I agree! When you love how can you not enjoy? And what about "Delight thyself in the Lord"?
I know what you mean. How can I not enjoy God when I am in love with Him? I love to pray, read the bible, go to church, sing praise songs, listen to my pastor. The freedom I have to enjoy God is awesome.
< Message edited by faithfulservant1 -- 5/10/2008 7:22:05 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 6/7/2008 12:16:13 AM
|
|
|
Lufia
Posts: 176
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Canada, quebec province
Status: offline
|
quote:
quote:
original: lovejoylynn2
Yes oh yes, how I agree! When you love how can you not enjoy? And what about "Delight thyself in the Lord"?
I know what you mean. How can I not enjoy God when I am in love with Him? I love to pray, read the bible, go to church, sing praise songs, listen to my pastor. The freedom I have to enjoy God is awesome.
I totally agree with that
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The questions Christians will ask! ; ) - 6/8/2008 12:14:53 AM
|
|
|
Jhud
Posts: 7512
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: online
|
Yes, I don't think right or priviledge quite captures it; rather it is our purpose to enjoy God for ever - and that certainly seems to be the case.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 6/12/2008 4:55:52 PM
|
|
|
galadriel2
Posts: 212
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
|
Enoying God isn't a right. It is a priviledge.
God bless all abundantly,
Galadriel2
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 6/12/2008 5:38:45 PM
|
|
|
MrFribbles
Posts: 1240
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
|
quote:
Enoying God isn't a right. It is a priviledge.
Is a child enjoying their earthly father a privilege, too?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 6/13/2008 9:45:01 AM
|
|
|
hellohellohi
Posts: 538
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: North Carolina!
Status: offline
|
quote:
I guess really, rather than "Do we have the right to enjoy God" it should be more of "is it right to enjoy God?" Do we have the ability, allowance, and urging to enjoy God?
and others said things along similar lines. I think we have a consensus that ...
Yeah, it's right to enjoy God!
Is it a human right? -- well, what is the meaning of the word "right" aside from, it's what God wants. I don't know where people come up with the idea of rights sometimes secularly...
All I wanted to say is, tho,
Do we have a right to suffer?
We have the will to suffer through our defiance and refusal of God; thus, we could probably meet the secular criteria for rights, in that the call to joy may OFFEND us!
I think perhaps secularism must call anything a right which has the possibility of being infringed on, that is, something that will offend the sensibilities of most people, such as being murdered on and stuff.
But, in the same way, Christ is probably offensive to a MAJORITY, though I would never wage anything on the exact proportion of sheep and goats, or who is who (I'm not the shepherd)! That means we have a "right" to refuse God and to suffer by that standard. A secular person, assuming they are a respecter of freedom of religion, will surely say we have a right to love the God of our choice, but only insofar as we aren't doing violence to others or to our precious selves! But to disregard our own criteria for integrity and happiness and allow God to dictate the terms of our joy? Nay, that is opposed to the spirit of the rights of man!
We have a right to run away from the love of God like a little boy who can't stand his auntie's kisses. We have a right to ignore God and to live life as we see fit.
But a right to enjoy God? Only if we give up the notion of "rights" secularly speaking, disregard the self, and fall (rise?) in love with God.
I'm just being poetic and clever tho because I'm bored at work.
Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 7/4/2008 3:56:51 PM
|
|
|
Dougeb
Posts: 32
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
|
i have been made right through Christ so yes!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 7/8/2008 8:51:39 AM
|
|
|
Consecrated2God
Posts: 5172
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
Status: offline
|
quote:
So there is no need to start sounding defensive, or to start attacking the Charismatic church... my question is merely if it is okay, even good to actually ENJOY God.
Absolutely! How can we truly love him if it's obeying Him and communining with Him are simply a chore? If I said I loved my husband, but never enjoyed being with him, he would not think I loved him very much and he'd be right. I love the Lord. I love spending time with Him. I can't think of anything I'd rather do or anyplace I'd rather be than in His presence. Yes--I enjoy Him! If I didn't enjoy being with God, I'd have to say I didn't really love Him.
_____________________________
Quilt raffle benefiting Voice of the Martyrs-- Click Here for information.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 7/8/2008 2:18:05 PM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 3987
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
We have no "right" to anything but hell. We have the priviledge and opportunity thru Messiah to enjoy God.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 7/8/2008 3:09:49 PM
|
|
|
hellohellohi
Posts: 538
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: North Carolina!
Status: offline
|
quote:
We have no "right" to anything but hell. We have the priviledge and opportunity thru Messiah to enjoy God.
This quote made me laugh a little! But I do think it's right anyway. I also think, by human standards, we have the "right" to run away from God and do what we deem smart, within reason -- y'know, the pursut of happiness! But this pursuit, guided by our own pride and rebelliousness, is what makes us deserve hell (because we so ironically turn our back on the one true happiness, the one true love -- God's!)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 7/18/2008 6:43:18 AM
|
|
|
Katie-Scarlet
Posts: 108
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
|
We received our rights when Jesus died for our sins. We become righteousness because of what Jesus did not becasue of anything we do. When we accept Christ as our saviour we become children of God. Does not children have a right to enjoy their father. When Jesus died and shed his blood for us he made it not about what we deserve because we all know what we do deserve, he made it about what God in his mercy and love for us freely give to us his children. Part of that is a right to enjoy him deserving or not. Jesus died for it and I freely and thankfully accept it.
_____________________________
Satans job is 24hrs 365 days a year and he never takes lunch, vacation or has a sick day.
Are you ready to join the war? Know your enemy, prepare yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Do we have a right to enjoy God? - 7/26/2008 10:27:35 AM
|
|
|
Rev.2217
Posts: 3
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
|
Yes,
Through God's grace, who has made us his sons and daughters through Christ, we were given eternal life and the right to enjoy God in his kingdom. Praise God :D
John 1:12 "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—"
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
