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Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/6/2008 1:38:10 PM
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Marcus.
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I don't know if you keep up with the airline industry but there have been several failures recently. Fuel prices and not passing the increased operating costs on to the customers have forced these airlines into liquidation.
Here is the most current list I have run across. Some of these may be new to you because they were subcontractors to major airlines or charter outfits.
- Aloha
- Big Sky (Northwest Airlines regional partner)
- Champion (Charter out of Minneapolis)
- Skybus (new low cost)
- Skyway (Midwest Airlines regional partner)
- ATA
- Kitty Hawk
Also Sun Country Airlines is furloughing 30% of its pilots.
< Message edited by Marcus. -- 4/6/2008 1:44:21 PM >
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/6/2008 4:50:12 PM
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colliefan
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Not to sound calous, but just part of marketplace economics. When - not if - when the market rebounds, new airlines will take their places.
The REAL issue is getting people to see the futility of the global warming hoax. The belief the gasoline engine is evil and naturally occuring fuels are good is the main reason the marketplace is experience the turbulance currently taking place.
It's NOT the evil oil companies, but algore and his earth worshiping minions that have caused the current maketplace malaise.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/6/2008 5:11:38 PM
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garsyt
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Kitty Hawk was getting to big for it's britches and from what I understand - living within 10 miles of their Fort Wayne hub and having neighbors that worked for them, the executives in charge were unwilling to compromise with the companies they hauled freight for, and were losing customers left and right. Of course that doesn't bode well for the employment market around here espeically with GM being out right now to another manufacturers strike, and several other companies in the area (Vera Bradley to be one) consolidating operations and cutting positions.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/6/2008 5:19:28 PM
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Marcus.
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Almost all of the mainline airlines have stopped hiring and most will retire 10 to 30 airplanes each.
I think it will teach the execs to pass on the price of doing business also. The prices stay low so the can try to get marketshare but in reality it's to monopolize an airport or series of them. The prices go up to cover operating costs afterward. The feds could help end this arrangment by forcing the gate assignments to be evened out. Don't allow any one airline to monopolize an airport again. Force them all to quit undercutting each other (such as the dirty tricks Mesa Airlines pulled with Aloha). Force the financial views towards the truly long term.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/6/2008 6:10:15 PM
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Kat_D
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Yes, I know. I have a friend who was "lucky" enough to be flying home from Hawaii via an Aloha and an ATA flight. She's still in Hawaii trying to get home and last I heard she had secured a flight at twice the price she originally paid.
I just think that with the economy the way it is, a lot of people can't afford to fly anymore anyway.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/6/2008 8:00:01 PM
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SonInMe1
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I seldom heard of anyone flying when I was a kid 40 years ago. Now it seems everyone has flown.
It was very expensive to fly then...guess its time to go back to that.
There is no free ride in life
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/6/2008 9:42:34 PM
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humbleinspirit
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I am more concerned about the lack of routine inspections that these airlines are supposed to be doing that the FAA has called them on. A number of planes have been grounded due to faulty wiring, etc.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/7/2008 2:09:07 AM
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Marcus.
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I would be more concerned about inspections and repair work that is simply pencil whipped.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/7/2008 2:35:29 AM
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crm4souls
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Airlines will fail, but the government will continue to keep the airline industry afloat. It's part of our system and the economy. They will bail them out again, if the need arises. One thing is for sure, don't ever buy an airline stock. We never put our money in the airline industry, unless it is to buy a ticket to fly.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/7/2008 2:01:45 PM
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Starbucks880
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I have a friend who thought she'd be going on vacation that day and unfortunately had picked ATA as her airline. She went to Midway and there was no one at the ticket counter at all. There was only a notice taped to the desk. That was how she found out. She did eventually get a seat on a Southwest flight, but her vacation was shortened. Luckily she wasn't one of those stranded far from home with no where to go. I wasn't surprised at ATA going under. It was only a matter of time.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/9/2008 9:48:19 AM
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daniellep79
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Not to sound calous, but just part of marketplace economics. When - not if - when the market rebounds, new airlines will take their places.
The REAL issue is getting people to see the futility of the global warming hoax. The belief the gasoline engine is evil and naturally occuring fuels are good is the main reason the marketplace is experience the turbulance currently taking place.
It's NOT the evil oil companies, but algore and his earth worshiping minions that have caused the current maketplace malaise.
I completely agree with you on the lies of Al Gore. There is so much evidence that we are not going into Global Warming. It's sad that the world simply accepts what he has to say. An Inconveinent Truth had a lot of errors. And this world will pass away anyways, people want to be more concerned with their souls than with this temporal world.
That being said, I just have a question as to how the environmental activists have cause the marketplace malaise?
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/10/2008 6:45:56 PM
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Marcus.
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If anyone has a friend or family member considering going into aviation and becoming an airline pilot, there is a heavy price to pay. This article actually tells it the way it is. Most articles glamorize the profession. It isn't what it seems.
From the article.
quote:
Since Sept. 11, 2001, though, 30 to 35 percent did not return when offered their old jobs. An instructor at Northwest Airlines told me pilots are so angry over the drastic pay and benefit cuts, not to mention the way management treats them, that less than 15% of the furloughed pilots returned to the airline when recalled.
< Message edited by Marcus. -- 4/10/2008 6:54:14 PM >
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/10/2008 10:31:56 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
That being said, I just have a question as to how the environmental activists have cause the marketplace malaise?
In short, they have removed a key part of the food chain - corn - that is intended for both human and animal consumption and have shifted it to the energy sector. This despite the fact it take more energy to produce a galon of ethanol than what that galon produces. And there is currently no away ethanol could be used in a jet engine.
Put the blame on the spike in food costs where it belongs: algore and his minons. Sounds like the title of a bad 80's band. But the nightmare is just begining.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 4/11/2008 12:38:52 PM
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Marcus.
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Frontier files for bankruptcy protection
Catherine Tsai - Associated Press Writer - 4/11/2008 7:30:00 AM
DENVER - Frontier Airlines sought bankruptcy protection Friday, the fourth carrier to do so in the past two weeks as exorbitant fuel prices eat into earnings and a weak U.S. economy keeps more people grounded. Frontier says it will continue operations as it reorganizes. The low-fare carrier said it was forced into bankruptcy after its principal credit card processor said it would begin withholding a greater share of proceeds from ticket sales. The Chapter 11 filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York prevents the credit card processor from increasing its "holdback," Frontier CEO Sean Menke said.
"By filing for Chapter 11, we will now have the time and legal protection necessary to obtain additional financing and enhance our liquidity. Fortunately, we believe that we currently have adequate cash on hand to meet our operating needs while we take steps to further strengthen our company," Menke said in a statement.
Continued
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 9/6/2008 3:48:19 PM
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humbleinspirit
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FAA investigating 11 air carriers on safety issues
WASHINGTON - Federal aviation officials said Friday they are investigating 17 cases in which 11 air carriers did not comply with government safety directives.
The cases were uncovered during a major effort by the Federal Aviation Administration to verify whether air carriers follow the agency's safety orders as required.
The first phase of the inquiry earlier this spring found seven instances in which four carriers had not complied with safety orders. FAA officials declined to identify the carriers and said they did not know if some of the new cases involve carriers already under investigation.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 9/6/2008 5:26:23 PM
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colliefan
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I would like to know if these are legit safety issues. Or, is it the airlines not compling with FAA red tape?
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 9/6/2008 6:23:57 PM
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ElmerFishpaw
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
I would like to know if these are legit safety issues. Or, is it the airlines not compling with FAA red tape?
I've worked in aviation for 30 years since I was 18. I work at a regional now. We are doing OK we have our bills paid for by the Mothership (major airline) and we get a fee per departure. Our aircraft are very economical and fuel efficient.
As far as safety goes, it's for sure compromised. The biggest factor in safety is human beings, and new hires on the cheap and cut backs in personnel have directly and indirectly affected safety. There is one airline out there, a biggie I refuse to set foot on because of maintenance outsourcing and hiring of ...well I 'll be called on the carpet here maybe for TOS if I use the word I want.....call them "replacement workers".
One big factor in the airline finance picture is Frequent Flyer miles.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 9/6/2008 6:27:41 PM
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humbleinspirit
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I do not worry about frequent flyer miles anymore, they seem to expire too soon and I really do not fly often enough to earn a free trip at all. There is one airline that I may be able to get a free flight out of as they are smaller and have a better frequent flier plan instead. Going with them might be more rewarding to me instead.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 9/6/2008 6:37:15 PM
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ElmerFishpaw
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It's a shame people got so used to the $199 coast to coast and cheap fares. Look how Southwest does well with unionized workers and lower fares. That tells me a big factor is how well an airline is managed. Some airline execs couldn't run a dixie cup dispenser.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 9/6/2008 6:44:26 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Yes, Southwest runs very efficiently, even if they were the subject of an FAA investigation earlier this year also.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 9/6/2008 10:21:17 PM
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coolfamily6
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My husband flies twice a week and said his tickets are the same price as this time last year and on some flights less...
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 9/6/2008 11:21:43 PM
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ekserekseez
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I fly a lot, and always have. I remember being a little kid, and flying was a big deal, you put on a jacket and tie like you were going to mass or something, and you got real silverware with cloth napkins. Then came cheap fares and the airlines turned into the Greyhounds of the skies instead of the limos they used to be.
Others on this thread have pointed out that flying used to be a big deal, and not a lot of people had done it, and that it seems like were returning to those times. I think this observation is right. I always fly first class, and first class tickets have gone up just a little bit percentage-wise, at least in comparison to economy class. That's because first class is so expensive in the first place. I flew JFK to Stockholm a couple of weeks ago and half of business and economy was empty, but there wasn't one open seat in first class.
Eventually the markets will balance themselves, and flying will become cheaper. I don't think it will ever become as cheap as it was in the late 90's and early 20's though.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 9/7/2008 4:54:01 AM
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ElmerFishpaw
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ekserekseez
I fly a lot, and always have. I remember being a little kid, and flying was a big deal, you put on a jacket and tie like you were going to mass or something, and you got real silverware with cloth napkins. Then came cheap fares and the airlines turned into the Greyhounds of the skies instead of the limos they used to be.
Others on this thread have pointed out that flying used to be a big deal, and not a lot of people had done it, and that it seems like were returning to those times. I think this observation is right. I always fly first class, and first class tickets have gone up just a little bit percentage-wise, at least in comparison to economy class. That's because first class is so expensive in the first place. I flew JFK to Stockholm a couple of weeks ago and half of business and economy was empty, but there wasn't one open seat in first class.
Eventually the markets will balance themselves, and flying will become cheaper. I don't think it will ever become as cheap as it was in the late 90's and early 20's though.
I'm hoping for a simplified fare structure. As an airline employee, it's tough to "non rev" anywhere. Mostly regional jets now with lesser flights. My job entails interaction with air traffic, and less flights makes it seem like less delays but I don't have any stats to back it. Frankly, there shouldn't even be flights at all between say, NY and Philly, or Chicago and Indy or LA to San Diego...that's all what should be high speed rail. IMO of course
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 9/7/2008 9:03:25 AM
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ekserekseez
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You're right about high speed rail. I travel in Europe a lot because we own homes there, so I fly into Rome or Paris or London, then travel exclusively by rail within Europe. The high-speed EuroStar is super fast and comfortable. European rail has everything from very luxurious first class to inexpensive, but still clean and safe, economy class.
The question is, could the US develop a high-speed rail system to take the pressure of the airlines, but do it with private money, without using tax funds, and without it being a huge federal subvention?
I doubt it, but we can hope.
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RE: Airlines Starting to Fail - 9/8/2008 11:07:17 AM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ekserekseez
You're right about high speed rail. I travel in Europe a lot because we own homes there, so I fly into Rome or Paris or London, then travel exclusively by rail within Europe. The high-speed EuroStar is super fast and comfortable. European rail has everything from very luxurious first class to inexpensive, but still clean and safe, economy class.
The question is, could the US develop a high-speed rail system to take the pressure of the airlines, but do it with private money, without using tax funds, and without it being a huge federal subvention?
I doubt it, but we can hope.
Europe has some very forward-thinking ideas (compared to the US). It would take many years to develop a rail system and Americans aren't very patient.
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