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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/1/2008 9:14:38 PM
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denbert
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Sure, why not?
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Denny
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/1/2008 10:37:51 PM
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beauregarde
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But it isn't just what you can write, it's the font you write with.
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/2/2008 1:53:10 PM
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Quasiblogo
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I'm behind the times on posting, too. Any way: I can't see where knowledge of music should be a player. Sabbath and music should be for the man--and woman...pragmatic...simple. I've seen where an emphasis on melody that to some degree accomodates men's range does have a dramatic effect on male singing participation. I'd prefer that squeaky, off-key version to the polished brand that leaves men in the wake of wafting sounds.
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/2/2008 7:27:52 PM
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Knolt
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It certainly can be. Especially if it's a woman pastor. I visited a church with a woman pastor one time. The men there didn't seem manly at all. I know of this one (male) pastor who's mannerisms is almost like that of an effeminite homosexual. It can be quite laughable sometimes.
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/5/2008 10:35:57 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Knolt
It certainly can be. Especially if it's a woman pastor. I visited a church with a woman pastor one time. The men there didn't seem manly at all. I know of this one (male) pastor who's mannerisms is almost like that of an effeminite homosexual. It can be quite laughable sometimes.
Ever watch Joel Osteen on TV with the sound off? It gives me the creeps to watch his mannerisms!
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/5/2008 6:03:12 PM
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Beanteaser
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I just wanted to comment on the music. I have a hard time singing on key with todays modern music. Most of it is in a key that is too high for me. Even half of the popular Christian male singers sounds like women (IMO). Hymns on the other hand, I can usually sing bass or baritone. Also, todays music is much more emotional and figurative compared to hymns which are more logical and literal (again IMO).
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/5/2008 8:39:04 PM
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Quasiblogo
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Good points, Beanteaser. Maybe we need a promo for at least one Sunday a year: "Sing it like you man it". Honestly, I think a lot of folks would get the point if we sang, for a least one service, at the range men can achieve. Doubtless, many women (much less worship leaders) would get the point. After that? How about some type of gender-balance, just like some like to obtain "blended worship" or a balanced ethnic style. Hmm, sounds like a pitch for political correctness. But maybe that just illustrates how slantedly high-pitched the music has gotten.
< Message edited by Quasiblogo -- 5/5/2008 8:46:30 PM >
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Forecast: Reign Forever
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/5/2008 8:44:03 PM
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denbert
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Well, I suppose one more turn of the C-clamp would raise us up half an octave.
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/6/2008 1:15:39 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Beanteaser
I just wanted to comment on the music. I have a hard time singing on key with todays modern music. Most of it is in a key that is too high for me. Even half of the popular Christian male singers sounds like women (IMO). Hymns on the other hand, I can usually sing bass or baritone. Also, todays music is much more emotional and figurative compared to hymns which are more logical and literal (again IMO).
Agreed...
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"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/12/2008 10:26:14 PM
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kljohnson77
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... I wholeheartedly agree.
Modern music is written mostly for emotional impact therefore the tune and notes are twisty and written for solo or small group performances. Most of them were not written for congregational singing.
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/14/2008 5:24:30 PM
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buckifn
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I never thought about it...worship music is to bring us into the presence of God..so I don't see it as either masculine or feminine...flowers..well flowers really aren't just for women...and they make the sanctuary look nice so they don't bother me...
our leadership ratio is prob 60/30 male so I'm not seeing that as a problem either.
I've never had a female pastor so can't comment on that one..but the female speakers I have heard were very good speakers with the exception of one or two...so I guess I've been sheltered or something.
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/15/2008 1:34:10 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
I never thought about it...worship music is to bring us into the presence of God..
Music does not “bring us into the presence of God”. You won’t find that anywhere in Scripture.
Ps 19:7-8
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Ps 56:4
4 In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.
Ps 56:10
10 In God will I praise his word: in the LORD will I praise his word.
Ps 119:27
27 Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: so shall I talk of thy wondrous works.
Ps 138:2
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
Please meditate on these few Scriptures (as there are so many more that say the same message).
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<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/15/2008 5:48:23 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Beanteaser
..... Music can be an expression of worship, but that is all. IMO, modern worship is more figurative and emotional which seems to cater toward women. That is one reason why the female population is so much higher in church.
Exactly. Well-said.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/16/2008 8:41:16 PM
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Quasiblogo
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quote:
Music does not “bring us into the presence of God”. You won’t find that anywhere in Scripture.
"I in them, they in Me". Music makes the mind aware of what Jesus says about our relationship with Him. The presence/relationship exists. The shift of mind, a "bringing" of sorts.
Quaz
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/16/2008 9:44:52 PM
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buckifn
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quote:
Just wondering what the other 10% could be.
like sheep that are astray..nobody knows where the last 10 are.:)
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/16/2008 11:18:11 PM
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Beanteaser
Posts: 287
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Quasiblogo
quote:
Music does not “bring us into the presence of God”. You won’t find that anywhere in Scripture.
"I in them, they in Me". Music makes the mind aware of what Jesus says about our relationship with Him. The presence/relationship exists. The shift of mind, a "bringing" of sorts.
Quaz
Worship is so much more than music that "brings." It has to be a lifestyle, otherwise it isn't worship.
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/17/2008 4:30:26 AM
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buckifn
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if worship music was only an "emotional feminine" overrated part of the service I would say it's time to find a new worship leader. one who leads with the Spirit...at church and at home hearing worship music can elevate my concentration from the earth realm to the heavenly....I'm surprised that isn't true for a lot of posters here.
I never used scripture I was speaking from personal exp. but it is biblical the worship leader was a very important person in the ot.
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/17/2008 7:48:45 AM
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Quasiblogo
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quote:
Worship is so much more than music that "brings." It has to be a lifestyle, otherwise it isn't worship.
beyond question...
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Forecast: Reign Forever
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/17/2008 11:50:41 PM
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ChristianCommando
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Hi guys-
First let me comment on the "feminie" part.
One of the main reasons Church of today has, in some eyes, become more feminie oriented, if the lack of guys as a whole, wanting to go to Church.
They are more interested in extra curricular activities like enjoying thier toys, doing sports activities of all kinds, plus more.
A question was raised on the Forum I help Moderate about a group of men who thought Church had gotten too feminine, so they started meeting on thier own, in a school gym, with atvs circling them, the score board on and an American flag stretched out over head and "manly music of some kind playing.
What a joke. If those men were man enough to get the rest of thier male friends to go to real Church, this off balance scene would not be found. Alot of men would rather talk down about Churches changing, than admit they are the principle reason for that change, and work instead to reverse it.
Churches if any, that may be geared more towards women and children, why don't you visit and count the ratio of men in Church to women? That just might wake up more men to the fact, in that area, men are falling terribly short of being God's true Leaders and examples for the family.
All men have to do, is go back and read the Old Test. where when God called particular men and they refused to step up and accept that call, God chose a women in thier place. So... what does that say about us men guys?
So what if some of you still go to Church, thats great, but are you so embarrassed your not manly if ask other men in the church who slacked off coming, to start coming regular again?
Jesus Christ, as God in the flesh, showed weakness, with the shortest verse in Scripture- "Jesus wept". How many of us would do that? What does the "Fruit of the Spirit" describe as in Gala. 5? How much of that can any of us show, and not be embarrassed thinking we are showing weakness?
The Apostle Paul declared himself that he glories not in accomplishments, but in his infirmaties, that God can shine thru greater instead.
As for singing- if you sing in your vocal key to the newer music, then you are singing correctly. I have a 4 octave voice, so I speak and sing quite low naturally, but I can switch to the next higher key. But, tho many don't believe till hear me, I sing best in the mid range, as I love to sing and learned to do so thru the mid range, of which the transition is usaully not smooth, yet its natural for me. And I havebeen trained, even tho my past singing teacher is always amazed when I sing in my most comfortable range.
Everyone has a particular "key", thus range they can sing in. If stands out, then more "fill in" vocals should be found to blend yours with the others.
I'm always put in the back if the Pastor kniws I love the songs we're singing, otherwise I drown everybody out with my deep voice. hehe, until an "Opera Trained" deep voice man sings, then he drowns even me out.
God Bless!!
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/18/2008 5:31:29 PM
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evryknee
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I'm a worship leader at my church - and I hear what many are saying about the songs, a high key, very emotional, etc. I guess the next logical question is, "What are songs that are 'man approved,' at least in regards to topic, emotionals, etc.?"
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/18/2008 8:39:44 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
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Worship is to our King and our Father.
If that were kept in proper context and given the proper respect they would never be "girly".
Casting Crowns had a song some years ago that sounded pornographic. (Can't remember the name of it something about "spread wide for your love" was part of the lyric.
If I can find it, I"ll post it.
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Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
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RE: Is church too feminine? - 5/18/2008 8:44:37 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
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Your Love Is Extravagant
by Casting Crowns
quote:
Your love is extravagant
Your friendship, it is intimate
I feel like moving to the rhythm of Your grace
Your fragrance is intoxicating in our secret place
Your love is extravagant
Spread wide in the arms of Christ is the love that covers sin
No greater love have I ever known You considered me a friend
Capture my heart again
Spread wide in the arms of Christ is the love that covers sin
No greater love have I ever known; You considered me a friend
Capture my heart again
Your love is extravagant
Your friendship, it is intimate
I do think that this is on the irreverent side.
I don't see this as a skillfully written song, I see it as emotionally driven.
I do not know if it was written by a male of female.
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Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
-Rich Mullins
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