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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/14/2008 9:30:17 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1070
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
SD456: Since you haven't said that you have a prophetic gifting, then I can understand why you don't understand the practical application of the gift. That's ok, too. I've learned enough over the years to know that you can't argue with people who haven't experienced something for themselves.
Let me get this straight. So because I don't falsely prophecy as so many 'prophets' do today, I can't possibly judge false prophecy to be wrong even though the Bible clearly says it's wrong?? I'm not supposed to judge anything I haven't 'experienced' even though God's word gives us the guidelines and standards for judgment??
Wow. This is exactly why discussion with you goes nowhere.
Hi lw9  ,
I'm referring to the lack of understanding that parts of the church have in how the practical application of prophecy is implemented. I've learned that it takes time to learn how to hear God in prophecy and it takes the Holy spirit's teaching to learn how to interpret the things that God speaks to us in dreams, visions and sometimes words. Mistakes in hearing God from a sincere believer who is attempting to be obedient are not false prophecy, they are simply mistakes.
Prophecy is a gift, like any other gift, that a person needs to mature in. Obviously the bible isn't clear at all in how prophecy works since the body of christ is divided in different camps on the subject. If it were clear, we would all easily agree on it because I know that we love Jesus.
But I'm not going to go around with you on it. As you said, we disagree on this, and that may be why you feel discussion goes nowhere because I come to completely different conclusions than you do.
God bless in your seeking of Him.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 3/14/2008 9:40:07 PM >
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/15/2008 12:13:09 AM
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Gloryandgrace
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With all that is going on in america, all that is going on in the church today, its seems to me that a person who must have portals is probably missing the great truth of an open throne of grace. What Jesus provided is neglected and strange new spiritual phenomenon is promoted. Could it be that instead of being a prophet some are substituting a mystic in its place?
I would rather see more Jeremiahs and John the baptists come to us to help the church.
John
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Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.....
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/15/2008 11:06:13 AM
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earthless
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SD,
Can you name a single Prophet who has a 100% track record and doesn't teach abhorrently on the core essentials? Because the Bible says that a true Prophet will:
a) have a 100% track record on his prophecies
b) their doctrine will be in line with Scripture
Thanks, I really look forward to meeting, for the first time ever, a true Prophet. Man! His words have to be passed out to every single believer and church in the world and we need to pay heed to them the same way we pay heed to Scripture!
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/15/2008 2:21:23 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2478
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Thanks, I really look forward to meeting, for the first time ever, a true Prophet. Man! His words have to be passed out to every single believer and church in the world and we need to pay heed to them the same way we pay heed to Scripture!
Don't you feel that prophets may be called to specific groups of people, not to the entire world?
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/15/2008 5:02:49 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1070
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gloryandgrace
With all that is going on in america, all that is going on in the church today, its seems to me that a person who must have portals is probably missing the great truth of an open throne of grace. ...Could it be that instead of being a prophet some are substituting a mystic in its place?
I would rather see more Jeremiahs and John the baptists come to us to help the church.
John
Except I think you are forgetting that we ALL have a different job in the body of Christ and have different gifts. Teachers often don't understand prophets, and pastors have a hard time with people in worship, etc.
God showed John Paul these portals, John Paul didn't go out looking for them. There's a huge difference between the two, just as Jacob didn't go out looking for a place where angels climb up and down from heaven but God brought him to that place and showed him what's happening there. There was a reason that God showed Jacob that place, just as there's a reason that He showed John Paul.
I would rather see the whole body of Christ moving in the gifts in a unified way, allowing the ears to be ears and the eyes to be the eyes without believing that everybody has to be feet because we think that feet are what's needed.
quote:
What Jesus provided is neglected and strange new spiritual phenomenon is promoted.
But John Paul doesn't neglect anything that Christ has provided, so that is an assumption on your part. John Paul is a pastor of a church that has grown to 3 different churches and people are saved in the churches he pastors like anywhere else.
And what is forgotten is that God has called John Paul to be a mentor and teacher to those who have revelatory gifts, as I for one can say I always need to have people older and more experienced in the giftings to help me grow. So what is on his website is intended for those who have prophetic gifts and they understand the things that he's talking about very clearly. I have no problem understanding where's he's coming from because I've experienced a lot of what he's talking about. God has used him to exhort me, discipline and encourage me.
People who have revelatory calling on their lives are different in their personalities from people who don't, just as those in the creative arts are different from engineers. We need to understand that difference.
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/15/2008 5:10:41 PM
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SD456
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quote:
His words have to be passed out to every single believer and church in the world and we need to pay heed to them the same way we pay heed to Scripture!
Except that's not the point of a prophet - to create scripture. God did use some of what Daniel, Elijah and others said and saw for scripture, but I can guarantee you that there was tons more of what those prophets said that weren't in scripture, just as we only get a tiny glimpse of what Jesus did and all the world couldn't contain all the books that could be filled with His works.
And there were plenty other prophets in the NT - Agabus for one - whose words were not used for scripture. So there is a reason apart from creating scripture that God has prophets.
Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets.
God is the same today as yesterday and He still does nothing without revealing it to His prophets. At least that's what I believe.
Blessings,
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/15/2008 5:52:37 PM
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sue244
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Once again you twist scripture to weaken God to someone that has to rely on human beings.
God doesn't have to tell us human anything. God doesn't need us humans for anything. I find in instersting that sometimes people will talk about how God can do whatever he wants, and that it doesn't matter if us humans don't understand, and then later the same people will say that God needs humans to do things. Lets at least be consitent.
Quote Amos 3:7 in context. Its a prophecy against Isreal saying that they will be punished for their disobedience. They knew what would happened if they disobayed and yet did so anyways so they can have no complaints against God for His punishment.
God has already reveiled everything He needs us to know in the Bible. The Bible is sufficient for all things in faith and conduct. Nothing else is needed at all. He showed John what would happen in the end there is no need for anything else.
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/15/2008 8:53:24 PM
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SirWintery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
God showed John Paul these portals, John Paul didn't go out looking for them.
Why? Is there a reward for "repenting" of contributions to false prophecy? Would anyone believe that it would be a new teaching on something that has allegedly been there all along? Why, after 6,000 years do we need to know that certain places are so "special"? They're not.
How about this scenario? "Nobody will pay any attention to me without my own special teaching,
so I have to come up with something." If a person starts from anywhere like that, they will convince themselves they're onto something. The Bible warns about the deception of the mind.
Ezekiel 13:2 "Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination: 'Hear the word of the Lord! (NIV)
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
There's a huge difference between the two, just as Jacob didn't go out looking for a place where angels climb up and down from heaven but God brought him to that place and showed him what's happening there. There was a reason that God showed Jacob that place, just as there's a reason that He showed John Paul.
Or there's a reason JPJ came up with it, and when it has run its course in popularity,
(popularity = $ale$), there'll be another previously unheard of concept that fills the shelves
at the Christian store and keeps the itching ears scratched.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I would rather see the whole body of Christ moving in the gifts in a unified way, allowing the ears to be ears and the eyes to be the eyes without believing that everybody has to be feet because we think that feet are what's needed.
The ears are hearing that this is wrong! IMHO of course.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
But John Paul doesn't neglect anything that Christ has provided, so that is an assumption on your part. John Paul is a pastor of a church that has grown to 3 different churches and people are saved in the churches he pastors like anywhere else.
"I tell you the truth," he continued, "no prophet is accepted in his hometown".--Jesus (Luke 4:24, NIV)
"It's good to be king."--Tom Petty, Wildflowers album
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
People who have revelatory calling on their lives are different in their personalities from people who don't, just as those in the creative arts are different from engineers. We need to understand that difference.
Creative people are often sensitive and have an inate ability to feel and perceive the moods and needs of those around them..._without_any_spiritual_gift. Convincing these believers that they can "get something from God" or that they should, is a bad enough recipe for unhappiness and a hindered walk both for them and the unfortunate recipients of their "ministry", and that without considering another hindrance--tapping into demonic divination. At the very least there is an extreme over-emphasis on getting "prophecy" to come forth--in some circles--with insufficient caution to the dangers of deception.
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/15/2008 11:28:56 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6355
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SD,
Can you name a single Prophet who has a 100% track record and doesn't teach abhorrently on the core essentials? Because the Bible says that a true Prophet will:
a) have a 100% track record on his prophecies
b) their doctrine will be in line with Scripture
Thanks, I really look forward to meeting, for the first time ever, a true Prophet.
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/16/2008 2:05:40 AM
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sherronefaith
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
Hi friends!
Here are a couple of names I have not heard before. Does anyone know anything about these two fellows? Apparently they "prophesied" over the school I attend. I have no idea if they are legit people or not. Thoughts?
He(God) gave some prophets, some pastors, some evangelists, some teachers, for the perfecting of the saints and work of ministry. Let him handle his prophets, because many lack enough information to effectively judge a prophet or a prophecy. I was told the same thing by several people that I failed to receive, however, inspite of my denial, their words are seemingly coming to pass. I have heard and was very impressed by that handsome John Paul Jones, however, I always listen prayerfully to prophets and wait faithfully upon the Lord's fulfillment of his word. According to me some will never come to pass.
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/16/2008 2:08:18 AM
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SD456
Posts: 1070
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
God doesn't have to tell us human anything.
I absolutely agree with you there. Good point! The cool thing is that God chooses to because He wants us to be participants in what He's doing - He wants friends of us as He called Moses and Abraham. Isn't that amazing? God's huge love for us is so astounding. That's why I find the verse in Amos so neat. That God 'chooses' to tell His prophets everything He does when He doesn't have to.
quote:
God has already reveiled everything He needs us to know in the Bible.
That's an interesting thought, but one I disagree with. We can't find the current seasons and times for the church always in the bible nor can we find the current direction we need in our life - like should I move to Texas or Wyoming, God?
quote:
Why, after 6,000 years do we need to know that certain places are so "special
I think there are some things you'll just have to take the time to seek God about. If you're not interested enough to do that then God probably won't be interested enough to show you hidden things:
Jer 33:3
Call to me and I will answer you and will show you great and hidden things which you have not known.
God doesn't have to prove to everyone in the church why He's showing certain people the things He's showing them. He can show them great and hidden things simply because He wants that person to know more about Him and His creation better.
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/16/2008 2:12:40 AM
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SD456
Posts: 1070
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
SD,
Can you name a single Prophet who has a 100% track record and doesn't teach abhorrently on the core essentials? Because the Bible says that a true Prophet will:
a) have a 100% track record on his prophecies
b) their doctrine will be in line with Scripture
Thanks, I really look forward to meeting, for the first time ever, a true Prophet.
Yes I could and have. But I won't subject any of there names to the evil attacks and things that come out of so many here. I don't want anyone being reviled and spoken of behind their back because I brought their name up. So I politely, and with respect to my precious brethren, will not name names. You'll just have to ask God for yourselves.
quote:
How about this scenario? "Nobody will pay any attention to me without my own special teaching, so I have to come up with something."
I believe that's putting words and motives into a person's mouth and we don't have the right to do that. Especially when the motives we put in a person's heart are negative and evil. That's pretty bad to do that. You have no clue what anyone's motives are and so have no place to judge that type of thing. It's vain speculation with a very negative bent.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 3/16/2008 2:21:04 AM >
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/16/2008 11:49:53 AM
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lw9
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quote:
sherronefaith:We know in part, and prophesy in part...
'Prophecy in part' doesn't mean to make an error or mistake, though.
quote:
...however, a just judge knows enough information to make fair judgments, so let's leave these guys to the just judge of all the earth. Also let's judge nothing before the time. Who made us judges, God is the just judge!
Who's condemning John Paul Jackson's soul into hell?? That is God's judgment. This is the judgment and discernment we are called to exercise:
1 Cor 5:11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside of the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”
1 Cor 2:15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment.
Acts 17:10 As soon as it was night, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
1 Jn 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Rom 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them.
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is – His good, pleasing and perfect will.
sherronefaith - do you believe those Biblical passages are invalid in some way? If so, why?
quote:
He(God) gave some prophets, some pastors, some evangelists, some teachers, for the perfecting of the saints and work of ministry. Let him handle his prophets, because many lack enough information to effectively judge a prophet or a prophecy.
All the information you need to judge a prophet is in the Bible. Here's a few examples:
1. A true prophet will be 100% accurate. A false prophet will not be. When a 'prophet' speaks something that doesn't come to pass, he's spoken a lie. Since God's word is never a lie, his true prophets will not bring a lie, either, so those claiming to hear from God but speak a lie never heard from God in the first place. [Jer 28:9, Eze 33:33, Deut 18:20-21, Jer 23:32, Jer 23:25, Eze 22:28, 1 Sam 3:19-20]
2. A true prophet will bring the word of God, and the word of God does not contradict itself. Any 'prophet' who contradicts God's word is false, false, false [Jer 23:21-22, Jer 23:26, 2 Pet 2:1-3]
3. A true prophet will live according to God's word [Matt 7:15-17, 2 Pet 2:1-3]
There are many other Biblical standards that God gave us to determine the true from the false, but the above are the key points and easiest way to tell.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 3/16/2008 12:10:46 PM >
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/16/2008 11:52:58 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6355
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
SD,
Can you name a single Prophet who has a 100% track record and doesn't teach abhorrently on the core essentials? Because the Bible says that a true Prophet will:
a) have a 100% track record on his prophecies
b) their doctrine will be in line with Scripture
Thanks, I really look forward to meeting, for the first time ever, a true Prophet.
Yes I could and have. But I won't subject any of there names to the evil attacks and things that come out of so many here. I don't want anyone being reviled and spoken of behind their back because I brought their name up. So I politely, and with respect to my precious brethren, will not name names. You'll just have to ask God for yourselves.
How convenient and wrong on your part. I am a Christian just like you - no more and no less - why you would refuse a fellow born-again believer the knowledge of an actual true Prophet is downright wrong and selfish.
I challenge you to name a single self-professed Prophet of God that has been attacked on these boards, starting with me, that are not indeed false and failed prophets according to God's OWN standard and decree.
What say you?
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/16/2008 12:44:49 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1070
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quote:
I challenge you to name a single self-professed Prophet of God
I don't know any self-professed prophets. I only know of people whom God has called into the prophetic ministry and whom half of the church consider prophetic. So I can't help you there. God and much of His people recognize the ones that I have listened to.
quote:
Rom 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them.
That is a good verse to remember, lw9, thank you. There are plenty on these threads who like to divide and breed suspicion, so we should 'mark' them well, which is another translation for 'keep your eye on'. They are duly marked and noted!
quote:
A true prophet will be 100% accurate.
In the OT, under the law, that is correct. But in the NT under the law of grace that is not. Instead, Paul tells us to weigh what is being said. And the gift of prophecy is not the same as being a 'prophet'. But we disagree there, so grace to you.
1Co 14:29
Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.
Another good test is testing their fruit (which many seem to forget). Do they lead people closer to Jesus to a more intimate relationship and greater desire for Him? I would say a resounding yes to both Jim Goll and John Paul Jackson. My relationship with Jesus has grown exponentially listening to some of their stuff - so for me, at least, the fruit in my walk has been tremendous. It's all about Jesus for me and John paul and Goll are always directing people in that direction.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 3/16/2008 1:07:52 PM >
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/16/2008 1:37:32 PM
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jbow
Posts: 629
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
SD,
Can you name a single Prophet who has a 100% track record and doesn't teach abhorrently on the core essentials? Because the Bible says that a true Prophet will:
a) have a 100% track record on his prophecies
b) their doctrine will be in line with Scripture
Thanks, I really look forward to meeting, for the first time ever, a true Prophet.
I think, and this is my opinion, that the Prophet is more of a person who clearly see's the current state of affairs and tell's us what will happen if we don't change than a person who just tell's the future. Any prophet I know of, from the OT, who told what will happen, also had a message of repentance in order to avoid the fulfillment of the prophesy.
In a sense we all are prophets, in that we have the Holy Spirit, (if indeed we do), and He speak's to us about things in this world and in our lives. I think one with the gift of prophesy is more of the one I described above who see's clearly and sounds a call to repentance...
and remember that many of the people of his day thought that Jeremiah was a false prophet, but he wasn't... in fact they killed most of God's prophets because they did not believe them... then they killed Christ, calling Him false and a liar. I am not willing to judge all prophets as false, not when the word specifically tells us that there are prophets.
just my $.03
I used to attend a small church where the "pastor" seemed to have a personal prophesy for everyone, every week... we didn't go there long. He and his brother run a local Vinyard fellowship now... we don't go there either.
BTW, Earthless... did you ever research Dallas Willard?
Julien
< Message edited by jbow -- 3/16/2008 1:45:25 PM >
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/16/2008 3:07:51 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6355
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Julien,
The Bible (which the people of old did not have in fullness and completeness) clearly tells us what the qualifications for a true Prophet are. We should always be willing to judge (test) all things in light of Scripture.
SD - can you name a single Prophet that you and others have recognized as such? My comments about you not wanting to share him with us stand.
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/17/2008 10:00:11 AM
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SirWintery
Posts: 2084
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
How about this scenario? "Nobody will pay any attention to me without my own special teaching, so I have to come up with something."
I believe that's putting words and motives into a person's mouth and we don't have the right to do that. Especially when the motives we put in a person's heart are negative and evil. That's pretty bad to do that. You have no clue what anyone's motives are and so have no place to judge that type of thing. It's vain speculation with a very negative bent.
Flat-out wrong. You quote my words, "How about this scenario?" and don't understand what that means.
Attacking the attacker is a taught method of dealing with those who disagree. When people hear it long enough they do it automatically.
The difference is not that I'm an evil, negative judge and the hook-line-and-sinker crowd are God-pleasers. The difference is that I'm thinking and asking others to think, and they're refusing.
I've said before that something that is true will stand the scrutiny. There is a slippery path to go down when people are more interested in defending a pastor or minister than in examining if he might be wrong on one or more issues. When truth is sacrificed to protect a person, how far behind is holiness? Anyone that's been around a while has seen Christians protecting each other --and some pastors--from the consequences of their sin. Numbers 32:23 But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out.
"Hey, there's a wolf! Quickly my sheep, gather around me and keep me safe!" What's wrong with this picture?
Paul Cain and Bob Jones went down on sin issues...surrounded by these "prophetic"-type super-ministers. Where was all the better-than-thine insight and prophecy then?
Anyone can understand that when a person claims to have a word from God they fully intend that everyone needs to listen to it. Asking how they make that claim and judging what is said is ordered by Scripture.
It is a lo-o-o-o-ng way up from the bottom, though, when one is surrounded by good Christian people who have been taken in by some of these "ministers". I understand that when one accepts and believes that these guys are hearing from God, it is natural to fear that you would be opposing God by disagreeing with them. John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/18/2008 11:28:48 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1070
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quote:
and remember that many of the people of his day thought that Jeremiah was a false prophet, but he wasn't... in fact they killed most of God's prophets because they did not believe them... then they killed Christ, calling Him false and a liar. I am not willing to judge all prophets as false, not when the word specifically tells us that there are prophets.
I agree there. good point.
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There is a slippery path to go down when people are more interested in defending a pastor or minister than in examining if he might be wrong on one or more issues.
Well, that's a huge assumption you're making that people aren't examining the issues because they come to different conclusion than you do. I"ve spent 33 years studying scripture and 'examining' the issues and don't have a problem with the things you have a problem with.
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The difference is that I'm thinking and asking others to think, and they're refusing.
Or perhaps they're thinking very clearly and thoughtfully and come to different conclusions.
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Paul Cain and Bob Jones went down on sin issues
So did King David who was a prophet. Big time. In fact, I don't remember Paul Cain or Bob Jones committing adultery with a married woman and then having her husband basically murdered so he could get a way with it. Did God then tell us to have nothing to do with David? - never read his psalms again! *L* Did God excommunicate him from the rest of Israel or tell everyone that he's a false leader because he fell into sin?....Nope. David suffered the consequences of his sin just as Paul and Bob both suffered for their sins, just as we all do.
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I understand that when one accepts and believes that these guys are hearing from God, it is natural to fear that you would be opposing God by disagreeing with them.
I don't believe anyone has a fear of disagreeing with them. On the contrary they get called liars and false more than anyone on the planet. I have a different understanding of the application of the prophetic gift and the time and years it takes to learn how to hear from God than you guys do. And I feel confident that it's my papa in heaven who has been teaching me all these years - "when you ask for the spirit he's not going to give you a serpent or stone or a devil". We can always trust Him to answer that prayer with faithfulness.
I believe that scripture speaks about Elijah and his school of the prophets. In fact it mentions it several times. Prophets were mentored and trained in their giftings even in the OT. (I know there was once a thread about this so we don't need to get off course and discuss it again.)
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MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/19/2008 5:02:53 PM
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SirWintery
Posts: 2084
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
Well, that's a huge assumption you're making that people aren't examining the issues because they come to different conclusion than you do. I"ve spent 33 years studying scripture and 'examining' the issues and don't have a problem with the things you have a problem with.
Great! Please tell me how you tested John Paul Jackson's "portals" teaching against Scripture. Just saying that Jacob saw angels on a ladder is not enough.
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ORIGINAL: SD456
Or perhaps they're thinking very clearly and thoughtfully and come to different conclusions.
Since you are so familiar with the teachings of John Paul Jackson, please share some of the false words that he has spoken correction over as a "prophet". Bone dry on that one? Then why may I not conclude that his "ministry" is an act of self-aggrandizement?
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ORIGINAL: SD456
So did King David who was a prophet. Big time. In fact, I don't remember Paul Cain or Bob Jones committing adultery with a married woman and then having her husband basically murdered so he could get a way with it. Did God then tell us to have nothing to do with David? - never read his psalms again! *L* Did God excommunicate him from the rest of Israel or tell everyone that he's a false leader because he fell into sin?....Nope. David suffered the consequences of his sin just as Paul and Bob both suffered for their sins, just as we all do.
One might think you had completely missed the rest of that sentence, so here it is:
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ORIGINAL: wintery
Paul Cain and Bob Jones went down on sin issues...surrounded by these "prophetic"-type super-ministers. Where was all the better-than-thine insight and prophecy then?
There was plenty of reason to avoid these two before this.
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ORIGINAL: SD456
I don't believe anyone has a fear of disagreeing with them. On the contrary they get called liars and false more than anyone on the planet.
I find it very unlikely that anyone buying into this segment of Christianity would disagree with anyone other than critics of these "apostolic/prophetic" leaders. Other Christians seem to know very little or nothing about them.
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ORIGINAL: SD456
I have a different understanding of the application of the prophetic gift and the time and years it takes to learn how to hear from God than you guys do. And I feel confident that it's my papa in heaven who has been teaching me all these years - "when you ask for the spirit he's not going to give you a serpent or stone or a devil". We can always trust Him to answer that prayer with faithfulness.
Some things are up to us. Looking at our Christian lives without "Third Wave"-tinted glasses can be quite challenging, when we've decided that that _is_ what the world looks like.
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/19/2008 8:34:48 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1070
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Great! Please tell me how you tested John Paul Jackson's "portals" teaching against Scripture. Just saying that Jacob saw angels on a ladder is not enough.
Easy. I prayed. The Holy Spirit led me to Jacob's ladder and told me that such places actually exist in the world, which is why He highlighted it in scripture. And I believed Him. Simple as that. You are free to believe what you wish.
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ORIGINAL: wintery
Paul Cain and Bob Jones went down on sin issues...surrounded by these "prophetic"-type super-ministers. Where was all the better-than-thine insight and prophecy then?
There was plenty of reason to avoid these two before this.
And David had Nathan when he went down. Why didn't God give Nathan a word 'before' David went down to warn him? And what about Solomon, the wisest man in the world? He fell away abymsally when he got old. Where were the prophets then? Paul Cain was in his 80's when he fell into sin. We all can fall into sin, even the best of us. That is not a measure of our leadership or calling in life.
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Looking at our Christian lives without "Third Wave"-tinted glasses can be quite challenging
Except that God was teaching me and many others about prophecy long before the 'third wave' was ever a tag line. God showed me about the prophetic gift and began to teach me how to hear him back in the 70's. I think that's a bit far-fetched to again say because we come to different conclusions, it MUST be because the differing party has something wrong with them (like wearing rose-tinted glasses for instance).
I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with you. We're just at different places in our walk and have learned different levels of knowledge about varying subjects.
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MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: James Goll and John Paul Jackson - 3/20/2008 8:23:35 PM
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