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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 5:24:11 AM
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august7wife
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All I know is that the bible says that satan is a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour (in your face). it also says that he comes as an angel of light (extreme subtlety).
Seems to me that it shouldnt matter what the issue is, if it's something potentially demonic or ungodly, it should be left alone. Not becuase of fear, but out of wisdom.
In my life, I want to glorify God in everything I do. If I may use this example. If you make brownies and add a little doggie doooo, it's okay cuz it was just a little...right?
I dont do yoga, cuz even a little doooo is too much!
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 7:26:08 AM
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timf
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Is yoga wrong for Christians?
There are many types of yoga. They all are rooted in Hinduism. Many of the yoga schools warn their students that they will have to overcome demonic forces as they open themselves up during their training.
Embarking on a "yoga lite" course without actually chanting of the name of a demon is not necessarily benign.
Setting aside the spiritual elements and considering just the physical. The Bible does tell us that physical training (discipline) can be a little beneficial. However, one also has to balance the possibility of excessive self-preoccupation that can occur that might overwhelm any good that could come from such exercise.
I have suggested to young men who go to a gym for exercise that they volunteer instead to help someone move each weekend. They would still get exercise, but also do something useful.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 8:38:16 AM
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zoebob
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I've read the praisemoves website and agree with her. I recently bought one of her DVD's but have only done it a couple times.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 9:38:33 AM
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pdvc19
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quote:
BTW, have you ever checked into horseback therapy for your MS? It can be very effective and fun if you like to ride horses.
 ...now that would be funny! I've never been on a horse. I could see how that would be beneficial though, the pt's talk a lot about improving core strength. Fortunately for me I am doing well physically...I just get in "trouble" with the docs because my muscles are stiffening. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm probably too chicken to jump up on a horse!
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 9:40:42 AM
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pdvc19
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quote:
I've read the praisemoves website and agree with her. I recently bought one of her DVD's but have only done it a couple times.
I think I'll talk this over with my wife and see if she will agree to do these exercises with me. I'm not terribly flexible...am I going to be asked to turn into a pretzel???
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 10:46:21 AM
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love4theLord
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I never really thought of yoga this way, i have read all the posts and am just surprised..Yoga helps you to relax, focus and stretch. I have seen them do yoga at the gym and they don't do chanting,yelling etc...I know God wants me to take care of my body and get exercise, eat right etc...If you clear your mind and relax, while doing yoga you can then pray, talk to God and get closer to him. That would give you that personal time with him..I would defintely do it!!
just my thoughts on that..There is nothing wrong with it.
kc
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 3:22:47 PM
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zoebob
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No there's not much pretzel stuff in it. It's more stretching and balance.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 5:31:11 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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Pilates does plenty of core-strengthening and such without any of the new ageism attached.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/4/2008 8:14:15 AM
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Focusing
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I've done yoga for years. The lady I initially learned it from taught only the movements relating to stretching and balancing. Not once did it ever cross my mind that I was allowing demonic forces into my mind or body. In fact, once I became a Christian, I used my exercises while meditating on God and what He wanted for my life.
I guess if we want to, we can make everything about most of our activities relate to whatever we choose ...... we can choose to use our physical activity to glorify God, or we can choose to *think* it's for evil intents and purposes.
The bottom line is, learn what you can, pray about it, listen to what God tells you, and make the choice based on His guidance.
Personally, I'm not about to stop doing yoga exercises for the simple reason that I am not focusing my mind on eastern philosophy.
Also, FYI, LaMaze breathing techniques? Based on the breathing techniques I learned in yoga ....... just something to think about. Every time you do deep breathing exercises to focus your mind, are you going to now think you cannot do that because it's something an eastern philosophy does? I don't, due to the very simple fact that it isn't where I allow my mind to wander.
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[Deleted] - 1/4/2008 8:56:08 AM
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/4/2008 9:12:19 AM
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Focusing
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It's not to learn how to breathe. There are breathing techniques that teach one how to focus one's mind off the pain.
It's all about educating ourselves. We should never cease to learn. Contrary to a popular statement, ignorance is not bliss.
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[Deleted] - 1/4/2008 9:41:09 AM
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/4/2008 10:33:16 AM
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Focusing
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deadhead
But if it is not necessary why waste the time and money. We had seven successfully without it.
That's wonderful! However, please remember that it has helped many of us women during childbirth. It wasn't a waste of money for me, I didn't have to pay for the class. But I found my previous yoga training far more useful in focusing off the pain than anything I learned in LaMaze.
quote:
It's all about educating ourselves. We should never cease to learn. Contrary to a popular statement, ignorance is not bliss.
I posted this just before leaving for The Big Commute to work. I wanted to clarify that it wasn't meant as any kind of insult to anyone. I simply find it sad that sometimes people will take one thing they hear or read from one source and base their entire way of thinking upon that one thing. IMO, it's good to hear or read varying opinions, but we should continually educate ourselves. This was more in re the OP. I also read that book, and the author is far more aware of the philosophy behind the practice of yoga. But here in the west, I think yoga is used more as an exercise. Some places combine both, but there are many places that don't. As I originally said, the philosophy part wasn't taught in any of the classes I took, and I found yoga to be very beneficial for my body. I focused on scripture, or beautiful music, or just enjoyed the silence. As a result, it never once occurred to me that there was some evil behind yoga until somebody put that thought in my mind.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/4/2008 12:20:49 PM
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Kath
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Lets not go down the lamaze rabbit trail. Thanks!
Do not reply to this nudge in the community or to me via PM. If you have questions comments or concerns please email community@salemwebnetwork.com allowing time for a response. Thanks!
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/4/2008 6:20:58 PM
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SonInMe1
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I have a feeling the people against yoga are the same people against holloween, santa claus, the easter bunny and whatever other box they seek to put God in.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/6/2008 3:26:13 AM
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Real_Solitude
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I'm quite amused that anyone should believe that a set of physical motions, in and of themselves, are innately evil. Context is what makes something evil, belief is what makes something evil, intent is what makes something evil.
Let me give you an example. Extend your index and middle fingers, while keeping the rest of the had closed, with the back of the hand facing outwards. Is this set of physical actions rude? Is it sinful?
Some of you, who know that this sign is and English hand gesture with the same meaning as extending the middle finger has in America may say yes, it's a rude symbol. But those of you who are ignorant of what the symbol represents where it is most commonly used would have said no, prior to learning the description.
If you actually followed my instructions before you knew the meaning, was it sinful for you to do so? Is it now that you know the meaning?
I would argue that the symbol, in and of itself, is not rude, nor sinful. Only the intent, the context gives it meaning.
So let's give the symbol some more context.
"The V-Sign: This is a distinctly British gesture that other nationalities may fail to recognize. One story of its origin is that the at the Battle of Agincourt (1415) the Deputy of the French king, Constable Charles d'Albret threatened to cut off the fingers of the much feared British longbow archers after he had defeated them. It was not to be. The outnumbered archers slaughtered the French, won the battle and then waved their two (drawstring) fingers at the retreating enemy."
How about now? Is the symbol still malevolent? Was it sinful for the archers to show that they were glad of their victory?
I would argue that the intent behind the action, or word, for that matter, is what makes it malevolent, sinful, or evil.
The same that applies to actions applies to words. As Yoga, or the V symbol, is simply a set of physical motions, so are words simply a set of verbal syllables. To use a more tame example than I did with physical motion: The syllable "Hi," in English, is a less formal version of "Hello." In Japanese, "Hai" is equivocal to the English "Yes."
Now, phonetically, they sound almost identical when spoken. Granted, the Japanese "Hai" is two syllables (Ha-i) to English's monosyllabic "Hi," but when annunciated they sound almost identical.
What, then, is the difference between them? Context and meaning. When I was learning Japanese, I would occasionally respond to yes/no questions with "Hai." Seeing as I live in America, this caused confusion in numerous cases, where the person asking me the question thought I was greeting them mid-conversation. Who's interpretation of the word was correct? Both of ours, in a way. Mine was actually correct because my intent was "yes." In any situation the speaker determines the intent of a word, no matter how it's received. But the other person's was correct because the context suggested "Hello."
Just as in these examples, intent and context are what determines the sinfulness of an action. If one recites devotions to a foreign god in a foreign language that they don't know, they are not worshiping that god. The person is simply reciting a sting of syllables that they have memorized by rote. If a person performing yoga recites "OM BHUR BHUVAT SVAH/ TAT SAVITUR VARENYAM/ BHARGO DEVASYA DHIMAHI/ DHIYO YO NAH PRACODAYAT," during the exercise, but are ignorant that it means, "Let us meditate on the splendour of the God Savitru (Sun), who will illuminate our understanding," I would argue that they are simply repeating from rote a meaningless set of syllables. Just as if an Atheist says "Thank God," it is not actual worship of the Biblical God, it is simply rote repetition of a cultural phrase.
Same thing applies to the physical motions. If someone is ignorant that the exercise is meant to provide those of Indian religions with spiritual experience. They are simply performing a set of physical motions that enhance physical health.
I would further argue that even if someone is not ignorant of the meaning of the chants and motions, they they may still do them without sinning. As with my Hai/Hi example, the meaning of the word is determined by the intent. Even if someone knows that a motion or chant is meant to be spiritual, they may say/do it if their intent is simply for exercise or calm.
But as I said, context also matters. If someone goes to a Hindu temple and then performs yoga, while they may not be sinning because their intent is not worship (hypothetical, they're not at the temple to worship they're... waiting for a friend, or something), they may mislead others because the context suggests that they're worshiping.
To put this all in perspective, it would be absurd if you said that people doing Algebra were sinning simply because Muslims created Algebra. It would be equally absurd to say that simply because someone is studying physics that they are worshiping God, even though Christians invented Physics. Something may exist wholly apart from it's origin, and simply become a product of its intent. I believe this applies to exercisal (fake word) yoga.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/6/2008 7:19:14 PM
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small_creation
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quote:
ORIGINAL: elastic
you can certainly practice the poses in yoga without doing the chants or even taking a class where the chants are used. there are many christians who teach yoga for instance who do not do the chants.
yoga itself is very good for your body..increasing flexibility and range of motion.
if you aren't a person who sees satan behind every rock and tree, then yoga might make you feel better/ stronger, especially if you have ms..... it's very good for your muscles and you'll be amazed at how much strength you will have after just a few weeks.
there are other threads on "yoga is a sin" and some in the health and fitness folder if you are interested.
Yoga a sin?? That's a first for me, to hear at least. I see yoga as just another way to increase your flexibility and stamina -- an exercise regimen.
It can help with carpal tunel syndrome, too.
Hey, where's that rock? I want to use it in Eternal Sunshine pose.
janie
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/7/2008 3:45:29 AM
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jennleigh
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quote:
All I know is that the bible says that satan is a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour (in your face). it also says that he comes as an angel of light (extreme subtlety).
Seems to me that it shouldnt matter what the issue is, if it's something potentially demonic or ungodly, it should be left alone. Not becuase of fear, but out of wisdom.
In my life, I want to glorify God in everything I do. If I may use this example. If you make brownies and add a little doggie doooo, it's okay cuz it was just a little...right?
I dont do yoga, cuz even a little doooo is too much!
This is hilarious, and I agree. . . I used to teach a matwork class based on Pilates/Yoga moves and although I did not include any kind of chanting or other phrases discussed here, I was certainly taught them in order to be certified to teach the classes. I think we just need to be careful of what we allow ourselves to be a part of. BTW, there are PLENTY of great stretching/core exercise programs and classes out there that have NOTHING to do with Yoga, chanting or any kind of weird meditations.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/7/2008 2:13:50 PM
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TJStarfire
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pdvc19
Can we, as christians, take over an exercise that is designed to "open up the mind and body to receive visitations from demon spirits"? [K.P. Yohannan "Revolution in World Missions" page 125.
I had never given this a thought prior to reading this book. What are your thoughts? Is practicing yoga outright wrong? Is it tantamount to playing with a ouija board or practicing black magic?
I have never attempted yoga, but I am being constantly bombarded by my physicians to practice this exercise as I have MS.
Never forget that our GOD is a spirit and HE sent us a spirit which is holy.
Thinking that all spirits are evil is blaspheming the one who is holy.
It is our intent that matters.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/7/2008 3:35:28 PM
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pdvc19
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TJStarfire
quote:
ORIGINAL: pdvc19
Can we, as christians, take over an exercise that is designed to "open up the mind and body to receive visitations from demon spirits"? [K.P. Yohannan "Revolution in World Missions" page 125.
Never forget that our GOD is a spirit and HE sent us a spirit which is holy.
Thinking that all spirits are evil is blaspheming the one who is holy.
It is our intent that matters.
TJ...I definitely agree with your point that our God is more powerful, and totally capable of protecting us from any of the evil spirits that we may encounter. The quote above is made by a man who is responding to Yoga's true intent of "open[ing] up the mind and body to receive visitations from demon spirits." He wasn't saying (nor am I) that all spirits are evil...he was commenting on the spirits that are called during yoga.
It's not the Christians I am concerned about. It is not-yet-saved sons and daughters who practice yoga because they see dad doing it that I am concerned for.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 8/12/2008 12:04:01 AM
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p31woman
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Reviving this thread because the issue has been on my mind lately...
On the one hand, I agree with Real_Solitude:
quote:
Same thing applies to the physical motions. If someone is ignorant that the exercise is meant to provide those of Indian religions with spiritual experience. They are simply performing a set of physical motions that enhance physical health.
I would further argue that even if someone is not ignorant of the meaning of the chants and motions, they they may still do them without sinning. As with my Hai/Hi example, the meaning of the word is determined by the intent. Even if someone knows that a motion or chant is meant to be spiritual, they may say/do it if their intent is simply for exercise or calm.
After all, a person could go through all kinds of Christian ceremony-- baptism, communion, prayer, fasting, repeating the L-rd's Prayer, etc.-- and none of those outward things would magically transform him/her into a Christian any more than doing yoga can magically transform someone into a Hindu. As Christians, we know Hindu gods are false gods anyway.
But, I also wonder if we Western Christians are sometimes not "mystic"-minded enough, if that makes sense. Not that we should be superstitious, but maybe we don't acknowledge the reality of the spiritual realm enough. Maybe it *is* possible that certain sequences of movement and breathing can make us vulnerable to demonic influence.
Just some thoughts from someone struggling through the issue for herself. I've taken yoga classes fairly consistently for 2 years now and the strength, conditioning, and flexibility from it don't even compare to other exercise I've done (running, weight lifting, aerobics). With one teacher, the focus was becoming increasingly spiritual over time. With another, the focus is completely physical *but* there is Sanskrit chanting and music played during class.
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So don't let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or Shabbat. These are a shadow of things that are coming, but the body is of the Messiah. Colossians 2:16-17
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 8/12/2008 9:13:47 AM
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Cloak
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I once attended Bible study and yoga in a church. All I can say is that as long as yoga or even aerobics become your god or addiction, you are on the right track and not going overboard.
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And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 8/12/2008 11:32:40 AM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pdvc19
Wow...thank you all so much for responding. I apologize for being so late to respond. I truly appreciate your insight. This is such a tough topic for me, which is why I raised it. I could obviously benefit from the physical aspect of stretching as MS is causing my muscles to constrict--which is all I had thought about prior to considering the spiritual aspects.
I guess I see "the Believer's Freedom" in this issue as noted in 1 Corinthians 10:23-33. That being said, I don't think I could be comfortable participating in yoga. As Paul also said in Romans 14:22-23, "Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin."
TMeeks, I didn't know how to reference your website, but I found that to be very helpful. Would "praisemoves" be an acceptable alternative for you? I think this would be a viable option for me. This takes "yoga" off the table, and replaces it with a christian-based exercise program. Plus, it would seem to potentially open up doors for discussion with others who want to know about the difference.
I'm certified in group fitness including yoga. It's a bit disingenuous (or misinformed) to make blanket statements about yoga because the practice or reality of what is called "yoga" here in the West runs such a large spectrum. You do have to be careful where you're taking yoga classes...I would not go to a yoga studio just because you don't know what you're getting yourself into. What is called yoga in a gym or fitness center is only loosely based on traditional yoga and pulls in so much more.
Good rule of thumb - don't take yoga from a person calling themself a "yogi" (even though chances are they don't know what the're talking about - that's a cue they're opening themselves up to something questionable) but look for someone who considers themselves first and foremost (or only) a fitness instructor. It's an entirely different approach.
But to say there's evil in the poses would lead you down a ridiculous road...better not do a pushup - might stay too long in a plank. And those figure skaters holding a "dancer" pose are probably in big trouble. In truth, there's much more yoga-esque meditation, visualization, and weird mind-over-matter stuff going on in a lot of charasmatic churches than in any gym! But that's a whole different topic, I know.
My only note about Praisemoves is that, if you have MS or any other physical difficulties or limitations, you're WAY better off doing a class with a trained professional (in fitness not in yoga!) than doing a video at home. I think it would be phenomenal for you - along with pilates and some resistance training as well. Just be careful.
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