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Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 3:21:57 PM
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pdvc19
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I am reading a book entitled, Revolution in World Missions by K.P. Yohannan. In that book K.P. (who is from India) comments on being shocked, amazed, and in horror at seeing a woman on television in the United States practicing yoga. He also notes that many churches actually sponsor yoga classes.
Can we, as christians, take over an exercise that is designed to "open up the mind and body to receive visitations from demon spirits"? [K.P. Yohannan "Revolution in World Missions" page 125.
I had never given this a thought prior to reading this book. What are your thoughts? Is practicing yoga outright wrong? Is it tantamount to playing with a ouija board or practicing black magic?
I have never attempted yoga, but I am being constantly bombarded by my physicians to practice this exercise as I have MS.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 3:41:25 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pdvc19
I am reading a book entitled, Revolution in World Missions by K.P. Yohannan. In that book K.P. (who is from India) comments on being shocked, amazed, and in horror at seeing a woman on television in the United States practicing yoga. He also notes that many churches actually sponsor yoga classes.
Can we, as christians, take over an exercise that is designed to "open up the mind and body to receive visitations from demon spirits"? [K.P. Yohannan "Revolution in World Missions" page 125.
I had never given this a thought prior to reading this book. What are your thoughts? Is practicing yoga outright wrong? Is it tantamount to playing with a ouija board or practicing black magic?
I have never attempted yoga, but I am being constantly bombarded by my physicians to practice this exercise as I have MS.
A truth that is twisted becomes a lie. The more subtle the twist, the more persuasive the lie. By focusing on the physical aspects of yoga, the practitioners hide the true spiritual dimension of Yoga. And, I would guess that if you followed the adherents of so-called 'Christian Yoga' you'd find that they eventually begin to explore the metaphysical like 'The Third Eye'.
The roots of Yoga aren't benign or secular. They are firmly entrenched with Hindu philosphy and it's hard to separate the physical from the meditative requirements of yoga.
Here is a link of one Christian that used to teach Yoga and came out of it.
http://www.praisemoves.com/ChristianAlternative.htm
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 3:46:10 PM
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JimboFletch
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TMeeks and I have disagreed an a number of things, but we are on the same page with this one. Anyone who dabbles in yoga does so at their own peril.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 4:20:12 PM
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designed
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quote:
TMeeks-
A truth that is twisted becomes a lie. The more subtle the twist, the more persuasive the lie.
Aint that the truth!!
I don't practice yoga or care to but I am definately interested in seeing how this discussion plays out. Anyone I have known who has physical ailments or not are surely benefited by doing daily body stretching. You don't have to practice yoga to benefit from stretching. Just my 2 cents. God bless
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:35
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 4:20:19 PM
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ta_mosquito
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Moving this from FaithWalk to Morality & Ethics.
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Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 5:50:28 PM
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Stephanos
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So if I were to do simple stretches, that are the same as what yoga practitioners do, I am doing something wrong? I did not know that stretches to benefit the body were so wrong. So because one false religion, uses those stretches in their "religious experiences", I am forbidden from doing those stretches if I want to be a good Christian? Wow...Guess this means I should never go down and touch my toes. I guess all those Christians in the military and police and grade school gym classes should not be doing the sit-and-reach exercises. There goes all those great stretches for the back. Yep...All stretches are evil and wrong and ungodly. Guess we should all just sit on the couch getting fat. But wait...that is unchristian too. Gee what are we to do?
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 7:23:23 PM
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GroupW
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Maybe if we get yoga practitioners to drink wine (or grape juice) and break bread before Sunday dinner, we can increase the effectiveness of our evangelism programs?
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 7:26:45 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
So if I were to do simple stretches, that are the same as what yoga practitioners do, I am doing something wrong? I did not know that stretches to benefit the body were so wrong. So because one false religion, uses those stretches in their "religious experiences", I am forbidden from doing those stretches if I want to be a good Christian? Wow...Guess this means I should never go down and touch my toes. I guess all those Christians in the military and police and grade school gym classes should not be doing the sit-and-reach exercises. There goes all those great stretches for the back. Yep...All stretches are evil and wrong and ungodly. Guess we should all just sit on the couch getting fat. But wait...that is unchristian too. Gee what are we to do?
Where in the world did you come up with that????
Just because Yoga USES stretching doesn't have anything to do with stretching being wrong!
Yoga is an organized system with specialized names for various positions having associated spiritual benefits according to the true adherents. Each position has a name and the purported benefits to both body and mind are a prescribed part of the system. As you progress, you ultimately reach levels within the system where certain chants are required before making the pose. It is the unification of physical and spiritual elements that is of concern... not just the fact that stretching is involved.
Is it wrong to do something LIKE the 'Downward Dog Pose"? No. But, I sure wouldn't pattern my entire exercise program on Yoga. And, for SURE I wouldn't condone a so-called Christian Yoga.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 8:07:28 PM
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Lite4God
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My sister went to a yoga class just a few months ago not knowing what she was really getting into...
She took issue with all the bowing and every command was spoken in a foreign language. After the class, she asked for the translations and found them to be praises to their god.
She told the instructor that the only One she bows to and praises is Jesus Christ and walked out. They wouldn't refund her money for the 5 sessions she bought either.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 8:22:13 PM
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Stephanos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lite4God
My sister went to a yoga class just a few months ago not knowing what she was really getting into...
She took issue with all the bowing and every command was spoken in a foreign language. After the class, she asked for the translations and found them to be praises to their god.
She told the instructor that the only One she bows to and praises is Jesus Christ and walked out. They wouldn't refund her money for the 5 sessions she bought either.
So I suppose you are against martial arts classes where you bow to your sensei. Furthermore what is wrong with people speaking in a foreign language? I know that if I want to learn Aikido or Jujitsu, the best teachers would be from Japan, and (surprise) speak Japanese. Is that wrong? Because it sure sounds like speaking in anything other than English is not something a Christian should do.
I dont want to turn this into a debate on martial arts, but I am using this as an example.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 8:42:49 PM
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facedown
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i might tend to agree with stephanos here.
it seems that many here are saying that yoga isn't the positions themselves, but the mantras and chants behind it.
but then i hear folks saying that the idea of "christian yoga" (i'm assuming here, meaning a christian using the physical movements and stretches of yoga, but no religious mantras or chants to unrecognizable gods) is wrong, dead wrong, and heretical.
so, i'm a little confused -
*if* the positions themselves are "fine", then why the beef if that's all it is?
to the op:
i must answer...no. because it's my belief that a christian is one who worships the living god who created the heavens and the earth, in whom we live, move, and find our being. we, as christians, affirm the apostles and nicene creed. thus, one can say, or do just about anything, without there being something sacramentally happening unseen. in other words, while i may strike a pose, bow, or say a selection of words, that doesn't mean that there *is* meaning and intent. suggested meaning or intent? possibly. and this doesn't equate to an "anything goes" song and dance. what it means is that symbols are not self-referential.
_____________________________
-| those who say, don't know. those who know, don't say |-
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 8:44:07 PM
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the_tigress
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At my parent's church I've heard some negative things said about yoga, but nothing firsthand from anyone who has actually tried it. The stretching exercises themselves seem to be pretty good, although I've only tried it twice, and if you're offended by the chants or particular music being played you can probably find a class where that isn't involved.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 8:45:40 PM
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lw9
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quote:
Lite4God: My sister went to a yoga class just a few months ago not knowing what she was really getting into...
She took issue with all the bowing and every command was spoken in a foreign language. After the class, she asked for the translations and found them to be praises to their god.
She told the instructor that the only One she bows to and praises is Jesus Christ and walked out. They wouldn't refund her money for the 5 sessions she bought either.
Good for her!! She put the truth of God over and above everything else. So many Christians are being sucked into very subtle deceptions, and the result is that false gods are bowed down to and pagan religion is slowly but surely being introduced and made acceptable. It's a shame she can't get a refund, but she did the right thing by discontinuing her participation.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 1/2/2008 8:57:39 PM >
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 9:19:03 PM
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kikos
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To the OP:
I think yoga excercises would be very good for your MS. There are plenty of places that teach yoga without doing the chants. There are plenty of other places that teach yoga that may do the chants but they are not required from everyone. There are also plenty of books and videos that you can learn from if you can't find a suitable class.
I do yoga whenever I can take the time and it is very relaxing and makes me feel so much better physically. The chanting is supposed to quiet your mind. What I like to do is chant Bible verses. You could do that instead of the traditional yoga chants.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 11:53:13 PM
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pdvc19
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Wow...thank you all so much for responding. I apologize for being so late to respond. I truly appreciate your insight. This is such a tough topic for me, which is why I raised it. I could obviously benefit from the physical aspect of stretching as MS is causing my muscles to constrict--which is all I had thought about prior to considering the spiritual aspects.
I guess I see "the Believer's Freedom" in this issue as noted in 1 Corinthians 10:23-33. That being said, I don't think I could be comfortable participating in yoga. As Paul also said in Romans 14:22-23, "Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin."
TMeeks, I didn't know how to reference your website, but I found that to be very helpful. Would "praisemoves" be an acceptable alternative for you? I think this would be a viable option for me. This takes "yoga" off the table, and replaces it with a christian-based exercise program. Plus, it would seem to potentially open up doors for discussion with others who want to know about the difference.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/2/2008 11:58:25 PM
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pdvc19
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quote:
to the op:
i must answer...no. because it's my belief that a christian is one who worships the living god who created the heavens and the earth, in whom we live, move, and find our being. we, as christians, affirm the apostles and nicene creed. thus, one can say, or do just about anything, without there being something sacramentally happening unseen. in other words, while i may strike a pose, bow, or say a selection of words, that doesn't mean that there *is* meaning and intent. suggested meaning or intent? possibly. and this doesn't equate to an "anything goes" song and dance. what it means is that symbols are not self-referential.
Thank you for your post. I think it's the "suggested meaning or intent" part that trips this thing for me.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 12:01:54 AM
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pdvc19
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kikos
To the OP:
I think yoga excercises would be very good for your MS. There are plenty of places that teach yoga without doing the chants. There are plenty of other places that teach yoga that may do the chants but they are not required from everyone. There are also plenty of books and videos that you can learn from if you can't find a suitable class.
I do yoga whenever I can take the time and it is very relaxing and makes me feel so much better physically. The chanting is supposed to quiet your mind. What I like to do is chant Bible verses. You could do that instead of the traditional yoga chants.
I appreciate your post...if you have a chance, check out the website referenced by Tmeeks earlier. I don't know how to link it into this post, but the website he gave was http://www.praisemoves.com/christianalternative.htm
Let me know your thoughts if you check this out. Thanks.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 12:18:42 AM
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Lite4God
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lite4God
My sister went to a yoga class just a few months ago not knowing what she was really getting into...
She took issue with all the bowing and every command was spoken in a foreign language. After the class, she asked for the translations and found them to be praises to their god.
She told the instructor that the only One she bows to and praises is Jesus Christ and walked out. They wouldn't refund her money for the 5 sessions she bought either.
So I suppose you are against martial arts classes where you bow to your sensei. Furthermore what is wrong with people speaking in a foreign language? I know that if I want to learn Aikido or Jujitsu, the best teachers would be from Japan, and (surprise) speak Japanese. Is that wrong? Because it sure sounds like speaking in anything other than English is not something a Christian should do.
I dont want to turn this into a debate on martial arts, but I am using this as an example.
You are twisting what I said. The point is this: When someone speaks in a language foreign to you, you do not know what you are saying.
My sister did not learn "what" she was being told to say until after the class. This is wrong. She was offering praise. She would never have done that if she knew what it meant beforehand.
As for bowing to anything, Christians are only supposed to bow to their Creator. My brother took martial arts. He is a 3rd degree black belt. I tried a class once and when I saw that I had to bow, I left.
I only bow to Jesus; my sister feels the same. It's an idolatrous act in my opinion. So, I can't support something just for the sake of exercise when it compromises what the Bible says. Exodus 34:1 tells me that God is jealous. The commandments tell us not to bow to any graven image or have any other gods before God Almighty. I think that covers bowing.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 12:38:26 AM
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Stephanos
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Bowing is a sign of respect, NOT WORSHIP. We are to worship only Christ Jesus, but if the culture you are in asks you to bow in respect, you should do so. East Asian, but specifically Japanese culture, bowing to eachother is a sign of mutual respect. You are not worshiping the person you are bowing to. You are saying, I respect you and mean you peace. It is the SAME thing as "great one another with a holy kiss" as Paul says. In today's culture that is taboo. But in 1st century greek culture, it was a sign of respect and friendship.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 12:41:42 AM
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Lite4God
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
Bowing is a sign of respect, NOT WORSHIP. We are to worship only Christ Jesus, but if the culture you are in asks you to bow in respect, you should do so. East Asian, but specifically Japanese culture, bowing to eachother is a sign of mutual respect. You are not worshiping the person you are bowing to. You are saying, I respect you and mean you peace. It is the SAME thing as "great one another with a holy kiss" as Paul says. In today's culture that is taboo. But in 1st century greek culture, it was a sign of respect and friendship.
Then, the premise behind martial arts is different than in yoga. So, this is irrelevant to the topic. The discussion is about yoga, specifically, yes?
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 12:54:11 AM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lite4God
Then, the premise behind martial arts is different than in yoga. So, this is irrelevant to the topic. The discussion is about yoga, specifically, yes?
Depending on the particular flavor of martial art, it may not be all that different. Some schools and styles are heavily influenced by eastern religion. Other schools take those same maneuvers and separate them from their religious roots, occasionally making mention of the heritage, but giving it little, if any, real significance. Other schools serve as a place for guys with mullets and thick mustaches to get together and break cinder blocks with their foreheads.
I haven't studied yoga, but given its popularity, I'd suspect that there are many similarities.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 12:56:51 AM
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Stephanos
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You brought bowing up first using it as a reason why Yoga is bad. I responded with an example in Martial Arts why bowing is not bad. You attack bowing in Martial Arts saying it is worship. I respond that it is not. The line is quite clear. Bowing, neither in Yoga or Martial Arts, is sinful. It is a sign of respect. God tells us not to bow down "AND WORSHIP" any idols. That "and worship" is very important contextually.
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RE: Is yoga wrong for Christians? - 1/3/2008 4:43:28 AM
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kikos
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quote:
I appreciate your post...if you have a chance, check out the website referenced by Tmeeks earlier. I don't know how to link it into this post, but the website he gave was http://www.praisemoves.com/christianalternative.htm
Let me know your thoughts if you check this out. Thanks.
I looked at that link and she does bring up some very good points. Especially about how even if yoga doesn't affect you as a Christian, it could be a negative affect on someone else who sees you doing it. I really like the idea of the praise moves alternative to yoga.
BTW, have you ever checked into horseback therapy for your MS? It can be very effective and fun if you like to ride horses.
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