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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/25/2008 10:39:50 PM
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HHV5
Posts: 159
Joined: 7/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KatMack
And I've never heard that term used in anything but a derogetory manner. I must confessed that I was shocked to see RC use it because of the connotation it holds for me and many others. Thank you, Fritz, for your quick action on that one.'
I guess this highlights some of the joys and trials of Internet communications. Lexie and I were both familiar with that particular word in a very negative connotation while others weren't (and I think Lexie and I live almost as far apart as imaginable in North America  ).
--Kat
Old habits die hard. After all, it's proper English to him apparently.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/25/2008 11:12:29 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
What is your definition of African American, tracydolls?
A person that can trace their history to the slaves of this country. Now if they can be called African Americans, fine. But come up with another for us.
His history is not my history. WE don't have that in common.
He is black enough. The US law says one drop I believe still...........
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/25/2008 11:15:59 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
The US law says one drop I believe still.
What law is this?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/25/2008 11:19:59 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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Who is a black person
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/25/2008 11:24:50 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
Who is a black person
I was unaware there were such laws. Could you provide any web pages with information on this subject?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/26/2008 2:34:33 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6963
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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I've never heard of such a law either. I also don't know how one can have a "drop of black blood" since blood is blood. I mean, if I have to have a transfusion and a black person gives me blood, it's not going to make me black.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/26/2008 11:33:14 AM
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lexie
Posts: 3047
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
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quote:
How about giving us a few minutes? Your post is the first time I've ever heard of anyone being offended by that word. 91 minutes and three posts later that word is no longer allowed.
I can understand where you are sitting DenimDiva. But my intent was to show that the term can be used as derogatory and isn't the accepted word by everyone to use when describing someone. It wasn't actually my intent to have the word banned, but to point out to those who don't know, that the word is offensive to many.
Hey, I remember using a word to describe an East Indian person from Trinidad once. I used it because my best friend (East Indian from Trinidad) and her family always used it around me and told me it was ok for me to use the word. Well, I used it in reference to my friend in front of someone who didn't appreciate the use of the word. Turns out it actually is an offensive word to many (which I did not know). So I stopped using the word, knowing that while others don't see anything wrong with it, some do and I didn't want to offend anyone.
quote:
A person that can trace their history to the slaves of this country. Now if they can be called African Americans, fine. But come up with another for us.
Then what is someone who is African supposed to be called? Will they always be African and never considered American? What about their children who are born in the US?
It's an interesting viewpoint Tracy, I'm not going to try and argue it, but it's interesting to me having spoken to Africans that they don't think that black Americans should be using the term African-American.
And again, this is really such an American thing, I'm not really sure why. Many other nations built out of slavery don't have similar discussions still going on.
Maggie - I completely agree with you about the one-drop rule. We're raising a generation of very diverse children. I always say our children's class pictures will be so diverse (I think of my Muslim South African friend who just married an Italian Catholic.) People don't need to be ashamed of their heritage, and they don't need to play down or play up one side of their parentage, and yet many people still cling to the one-drop rule.
And the one-drop rule was declared unconstitutional in 1967. Yes many people still hold to it today but US law definitely does not state that anymore.
_____________________________
I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/26/2008 7:34:30 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3397
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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If who you are is based on the pigment of your skin then prejudice is an acceptable social norm.
What foolishness. "Black" people are not all one kind of people as "white" people are not. To lump people all together by their skin pigment to me is totally racist.
What to call ourselves? There are only two kinds of people. The saved and the unsaved and nothing else matters.
Do you really believe salvation might be dependant on skin pigment? I don't.
Hatred is fostered by pride in these circumstances. Pride you are white. Pride you are black. Pride is bad.
Just stop it. You are not superior as a white person. You are not superior as a black person. We are all equally fallen.
Does it matter what someone calls you?
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/26/2008 7:50:42 PM
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HHV5
Posts: 159
Joined: 7/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
If who you are is based on the pigment of your skin then prejudice is an acceptable social norm.
What foolishness. "Black" people are not all one kind of people as "white" people are not. To lump people all together by their skin pigment to me is totally racist.
What to call ourselves? There are only two kinds of people. The saved and the unsaved and nothing else matters.
Do you really believe salvation might be dependant on skin pigment? I don't.
Hatred is fostered by pride in these circumstances. Pride you are white. Pride you are black. Pride is bad.
Just stop it. You are not superior as a white person. You are not superior as a black person. We are all equally fallen.
Does it matter what someone calls you?
I think you take "pride" out of context. It's not a matter of "I'm better than you" - it's more of "I face difficulties in my life due to the color of my skin, but I wouldn't change myself". It's a sociopolitical statement, not a spiritual belief.
"Supremacy" on the other hand is completely different.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/26/2008 10:51:39 PM
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lexie
Posts: 3047
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
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quote:
I want to raise my boys free of "color" identity. Christ first, family next, culture third (lucky guys get two cultures!). The value of skin color to their identity is *nothing*.
That's what my husband and I aim to do. The problem then becomes that we have some family members that are so hung up on race, it's not something we can avoid. There are some family members who place their entire being on the colour of their skin and it's frustrating. It took a lot for my husband to get over some of the racial prejudices he was raised with and marry me, I understand that. But it was something that was so freeing for him. Others though, still choose to hold dear to what they were raised with, no matter how ignorant is. (And then take it out on others.)
Sometimes, it's like no matter how hard you try to free your home from something, you walk out the door and it smacks you in the face.
My husband often says that I get too hung up on things such as this but it's hard to let things slide when things are being said to you, when people who are supposed to be family are judging you and your children solely on the colour of their skin. I take the brunt of it in our relationship, and I accepted that when we got married, but it doesn't mean it's made it easier. Half the time, I don't even bother telling my husband the things that have been said to me or around me. I know that the only judgment of me that means anything is from God, and in my day to day life these things don't affect me.
But eventually you get sick of hearing these things and you wonder - will we ever truly allow ourselves to be freed from the colour of our skin?
_____________________________
I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2008 12:17:08 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6963
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1There are only two kinds of people. The saved and the unsaved and nothing else matters.
AMEN!
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2008 10:04:24 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3397
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
I face difficulties in my life due to the color of my skin,
A defeatist attitude. We all face difficulties in life no matter what skin tone you have.
There is no secret white man's world.
I don't understand the worship of skin tone.
Its
a
pigment.
Nothing more.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2008 11:31:35 AM
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HHV5
Posts: 159
Joined: 7/20/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
I face difficulties in my life due to the color of my skin,
A defeatist attitude. We all face difficulties in life no matter what skin tone you have.
There is no secret white man's world.
I don't understand the worship of skin tone.
Its
a
pigment.
Nothing more.
No one is worshipping skin tone. Ideally, yes, melanin is just a pigment.
But historically (and sometimes even now), it's not seen as just a pigment.
You can pretend racism doesn't exist today. You can pretend we all live in a color-blind society.
And by difficulties, I mean specific prejudices and hardships one faces because others see him/her as being different SPECIFICALLY because of skin color. These are things white people may not fully understand.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2008 12:24:30 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
I've never heard of such a law either. I also don't know how one can have a "drop of black blood" since blood is blood. I mean, if I have to have a transfusion and a black person gives me blood, it's not going to make me black.
We used to have such laws. Though I can't imagine they are still on the books today. They are the same laws that necessitated terms like "mulatto" and "quatroon" (1/4 black) and "octaroon" (1/8 black). 
What I think is so strange is that some African Americans cling to the "one drop rule", which was originally racist and used for the purpose of legal discrimination. Obama is "black" because he's half-black. As are my children and any other biracial people. 
The problem with the term in question is that was embrace by those in the US that made such unbelievable laws..yep, the term was first in writting in 1549 in Spanish generic deisgnation for any hibrid. Its considered offensive by English speakers but not so by Spanish or Portuguese ones, although there have been rescent propagand by some groups trying to bring enlightening by the word in question and it sounds pretty much by English speakers groups but it will not fly in countries with majority of their populations very much not only bi-racial but multiracial that does not embrace no drop blood law. It does not make sense mama being white and papa being black that a baby will be black. Yes right, at least in my view and many others ach drop of my blood will be acknowlege when I have knowlege of it doesnt matter what I may look like, looks can be not accurate...
I reckon my heritages comming from many fonts and individuals and history. Just immagine if I was born here at the time of this drop blood law...then I had to choose of forced to choose between my looks of black heritage or Hebrew (Jew non practicing) because they may be the ones that struggled and suffered most and may disregard the others and even not remember my Native Brasilian Indian because at some point in time it was mixed with black and both Indian and Black in Brasil was called Negro because they looked dark to those whites? Yeh right..no way Jose, I will not let no one to explain what and who I am and come from. I know at least plenty to tell a bit about "them".
If Mr. Obama becomes the President, I'm thinking about writing a letter to him, he may understand me, as he is a biracial individual and ask if he can do something about the way US Census box people and the opotions there are in it to be changed... There are just single races divisions there..hopefully they will add something like biracial, triracial, multiracial options and others options too. At the moment I opt for "others" option, because Iam not a Hispanic or Latina, or White or Black too. I am brown because I am mix with many others, I am not just black and white.
Thanks!
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2008 1:32:35 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1224
Joined: 3/21/2007
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quote:
Then what is someone who is African supposed to be called? Will they always be African and never considered American? What about their children who are born in the US?
It's an interesting viewpoint Tracy, I'm not going to try and argue it, but it's interesting to me having spoken to Africans that they don't think that black Americans should be using the term African-American.
And again, this is really such an American thing, I'm not really sure why. Many other nations built out of slavery don't have similar discussions still going on.
I do think this issue about being African in North America can be sensitive one. Depends on individual experiences of course..as African in US can experience lots of prejudices, descriminations dependening who they are in the social status of the society..well, non white immigrants have a harder time then white immigrants in many countries. But I do think that and African American in an African country may be look and perceived in different lights too. And lets not forget the economic matters of the situation as many countries African of with history in slavery in their societies are poorest then the US. Then a black person from other country then US may see AA being whinning too much as they have so many opportunities as North Americans born in a rich country and etc Many in those poorest countries are being oppressed and slaved and dying and killed in much great proportions then AA. Then they may not be sympathetic with some AA crises of identity and deep issues about their families brought to US as slaves and much personal histories can not be traced and etc for those wanting to know where excatly they come from in Africa. Africa is a continent with countries and inside those countries many tribes and ethinias, is no a question of just color but which different tribe you belong to. They speak different dialets and etc they have conflits between themselves etc they have their own huge problems of survival.
It is a very sensitive subject and many times people are to involved in their own fights and struggles to notice and try to understand where others are comming from. Slavery was and is a brutal awful atrocity things was done to many peoples groups. To Brasil was brough almost 8 millions os individuals from Africa, during those centuries much much happened and still you see the great consequences of it one way or another..still not wanting to simplify any of it I do think as many may travel to look in Africa for what is lost and now is buried, the loved ones who were the ones who cried for those being taken violently. They are burried for long time, the ones who we belonged to by family ties and tribes and etc now what I see we have the ones who are living still and we must make peace with and in our homes and new countries we are citzen of, now. We carry our heritages inside ourselves and most people dont have all the names of their genealogical trees individuals and who was who..at some point as there is no answer we must make peace with lack of information and feel its ok to belong where we have our roots, even if it started by our individual root.
There is a word in Portuguese "saudade" that means missing someone or something, but is much deeper than missing and very deep meaninful word, "saudade". And there is a word that I forgot the name that means expecific: "missing Africa". I do understand if and Africa would miss Africa, they know it, they love it, they belong there..but I think an African American is missing is not Africa the continent in itself but the loved ones the slaves left and they cried for one another having the sea in between. Many Peoples cryed from separation, slavery, atrocities and many awful things done and still happens to this day. Hopefuly the ones who carry heritages in commom will learn to confort one another and growing in understanding they belong to each other, particularly if they belong to Christ be glued by His doing in reality of life.
To become a safe person where it is safe to be vulnerable is what I learned among many other things, in groups of broken people at church 12 steps programs. There must be a 12 step group programs of some sorts for races issues, identity, relations etc etc inside churches too. Yep !!!
Thanks!
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2008 8:02:36 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3553
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I watched a TV special " Black in America", I will admit, at first, I though here we go. ( You know eye rolling kind of thing) Then I felt a tugging at my heart, to see things through black peoples eyes. I did by God's Spirit, and you know it changed my thoughts and mind. I felt compassion and sorrow for AA. I know I did not own slaves, but I am so sorry if anyone has ever hurt black people in my family, or if I have myself at anytime.
Things, I realize have to change in the black community also, such as fatherless children, black on black killing. We WASP, have to change our hearts toward AA people also, helping repair the community, that we have caused so much damage in, or our ancestors.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2008 8:03:37 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6963
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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What is WASP?
The best I can guess is White Anglo-Saxon People?
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2008 8:04:08 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17146
Joined: 2/28/2005
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White Anglo-Saxon Protestant
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2008 8:04:38 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6963
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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ah, thanks Kath.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2008 11:33:38 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3397
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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quote:
These are things white people may not fully understand.
Its something black people do not understand either. I can tell ya, the most prejudiced people I have met in my life were black people.
If you have damages from being descriminated againsty...sue.
If you think someone has slighted you because of the color of your skin? Guess what? It happens to white people too. White people are not immune to irrational hatred. I haven't gotten jobs where I was qualified. People don't like me for whatever reason. I get treated poorly in stores.
"We" do not have to repair the black americans. All that has to be done is create, as much as possible, an equal playing field and let the chips fall as they may. At some point personal responsibility has to come into play.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2008 11:49:47 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
It happens to white people too.
It's true. I was once part of a youth mission team in Chicago, and we were out doing service ministry. We were doing pretty menial stuff (I was assigned the task of digging the dirt out from between sidewalk tiles with a shovel, so, yeah, I would say pretty suggestive of a servant role), and a young child came out onto her front porch and started mocking us for our skin color.
Racism is, unfortunately, colorblind. It affects us all. The cure is not whites helping blacks, or blacks helping whites. The cure is Christ. No more, no less.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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