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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/1/2007 8:53:53 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGod
To say that things in the OT necessarily need some kind of confirmation in the New Testament to be valid is actually what we call "Covenant Theology".
Thank you, FurGod. I'm not always very good at explaining what I'm thinking.  I'm so glad that others of you are!!
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/1/2007 9:24:52 PM
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SD456
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quote:
From the examples I found in the NT, no one needed an interpretor. The dreams were easily understood by the person receiving the dream and there was nothing mysterious about them. They were simple and clear messages from God.
But from the examples in the OT, that's not always the case. I don't believe that the OT has to be confirmed by the NT to be valid. I know we disagree on that point, and that's ok. Jesus will work where He wants, through whomever He wants, and I'm not concerned with making anyone believe my viewpoint. My viewpoint is just that, it's my understanding of things at this point in time.
I just want to follow Jesus as closely as possible and love Him as passionately as possible. And do whatever He tells me, even if it's to listen to a dream He gives me. Again, as I've said before, I believe the verse in Jer 33:3 is correct, "I cried out to God and He showed me hidden things I did not know". I believe that our Papa God will show us truth and not lead us astray when we ask Him to show us the layers of hidden things in scripture.
As for John Paul Jackson, his teachings have led me closer to Jesus than any teacher I've ever listened to, excepting Heidi Baker. He's so in love with Jesus and so child-like in his faith that it makes me want to pursue Jesus even more. I think there's something wonderful in a person that makes people want to dig in and learn more from the Holy Spirit and love Jesus more and more. That's very good fruit!!
God Bless...
< Message edited by SD456 -- 11/2/2007 5:35:34 PM >
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/2/2007 4:31:18 PM
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Giulia
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quote:
That's not a good thing.
Why do you say that?
Understanding the psych is a complex thing and it is not only a systemic process but also requires understanding from God. Yes there are ungodly psychs, they don't have that Christian understanding.
If dreams interpret where you are falling short in your walk with God or where you are focusing much on and areas which you are neglecting then it is a good thing. The land is the soul and what happens on the land of our soul is related to us and even relevant.
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/4/2007 4:05:44 AM
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Giulia
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God still gives dreams about the actual land only there are so many meglomaniacs around that often these sorts of dreams are demonic and not for the good order of the world but for the puffing up of one or two people.
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/4/2007 6:34:21 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Is every dream from God, with hidden meaning for your life? Certainly not. Charles Dickens' Mr. Scrooge believed his ghostly guests were simply a bit of "underdone po-tah-to," and something at least similar to "underdone po-tah-to" is the inspiration for many dreams, in my opinion.
Is there such a ministry or activity for Christians as seeking to interpret people's dreams? People who make such claims are, in my opinion, laughable -- if they weren't so sad.
Is there enough in Scripture to justify looking for messages in dreams all the time or does Scripture show that a message from God is significant and different? No, all dreams do not have significant messages, although some of mine have had particular, definite messages. However, I do not believe anyone other than myself is capable of interpreting my dreams, because they do not live my life, nor do they understand the nuances of the elements in my dreams.
Has anyone here come across Christian dream interpreters? I have run across a few, and while I found it clearly ridiculous, I did not give them any of my dreams to "interpret." I accidentally got on a site, not many months ago, that I soon found was a bunch of nuts interpreting dreams. They had dragons coming out of the sky to destroy people they didn't like and all kinds of similar nutty stuff. People like that, if they were not so sad, would be hilarious, but it is difficult to laugh at such. G-d is also not amused.
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"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/5/2007 5:34:18 PM
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Giulia
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quote:
have significant messages, although some of mine have had particular, definite messages. However, I do not believe anyone other than myself is capable of interpreting my dreams, because they do not live my life, nor do they understand the nuances of the elements in my dreams.
I have found that in talking to someone of like mind, my dreams become clearer and easier to understand. So I think that someone interpreting needs to ask lots of questions to the dreamer,not just force their interpretation just like that.
quote:
Certainly not. Charles Dickens' Mr. Scrooge believed his ghostly guests were simply a bit of "underdone po-tah-to," and something at least similar to "underdone po-tah-to" is the inspiration for many dreams, in my opinion.
What has Charles Dickens got to do with this? Was he even Christian?
Why would God give us images that mean nothing, it doesn't make sense. Do you think God would give us functions with no meaning?
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/5/2007 6:16:09 PM
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lw9
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quote:
giulia: Why would God give us images that mean nothing, it doesn't make sense. Do you think God would give us functions with no meaning?
Who says every image is from God, though? I don't see anything in scripture to support that claim. The Bible says 'old men will dream dreams', but it doesn't say how often, how many, or even what kind of dreams. Some people claim to receive visions, dreams, and 'prophetic' words from God all the time, even though a simple scriptural comparison proves what they received to be false and not of God. Rather than accepting that everything is from God, we're supposed to be testing things first.
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/6/2007 4:34:16 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Dreams are my night time entertainment -- most of the time -- and I love having them. They are a romp through the mystic haze of my subconscious that I cannot have during the realities of real life. Some of my dreams are extremely detailed, some are mysterious glimpses. Some of my dreams dig into the dark recesses of my thoughts and my life where I will not tread while awake. I am thankful for these dreams, because they force growth. Some dreams are completely repetitive, while some have repetitive themes. The mind is a wonderful thing!
While I have never had a prophetic dream (and do not wish to have one), some of my dreams were wake-up calls, calling me to deal with life-issues. Some are comedic release, and I have awakened from them laughing out loud. I have also been known to sing aloud in my sleep.
My dreams are almost always in vivid color, but sometimes, I remember no color. They can be horrifying; they can be wonderfully humorous; they can be extremely revealing. There are even cetain foods I know will cause me to remember my dreams better. Unfortunately, I don't remember many of my dreams in this time of life because of sleep issues.
But never would I ever claim that even 1/1000th of my dreams are G-d telling me something. I think that some people put entirely too much stock in dreams when they should be looking into the plainly-written truths of the Bible.
In my opinion. the function of dreams is mainly release of tension.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/6/2007 12:11:28 PM
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lw9
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quote:
Covaan_Meshuga: But never would I ever claim that even 1/1000th of my dreams are G-d telling me something. I think that some people put entirely too much stock in dreams when they should be looking into the plainly-written truths of the Bible.
That really cut to the heart of this issue.
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/6/2007 12:51:05 PM
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earthless
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Amen. Those tend to be the same people who get wrapped up in "signs & wonders" and are mislead from the absolute truth of God's Word, the Bible.
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/8/2007 5:22:21 AM
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Giulia
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quote:
Who says every image is from God, though? I don't see anything in scripture to support that claim. The Bible says 'old men will dream dreams', but it doesn't say how often, how many, or even what kind of dreams. Some people claim to receive visions, dreams, and 'prophetic' words from God all the time, even though a simple scriptural comparison proves what they received to be false and not of God. Rather than accepting that everything is from God, we're supposed to be testing things first.
Yes we ought to test the spirits against God's Spirit. If you truly do have the Holy Spirit in your heart why is it so hard to believe it is God speaking to you?
He deals with me in my dreams. Talks about things that distance me and things I need to get right and obstacles and vision and direction and guidance.
For me, God is not only in the bible. I discovered the bible to be real only after I experienced Him in real life. He is in my dreams and operates in them just as He operates in my waking state.
The absolute of God's Word is the Living Word that quickens and gives life to our souls. Otherwise the bible is just ink on paper. The absolute of God's Word gives light where there was once darkness, otherwise it is just a dark sea of confusion.
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/8/2007 11:01:24 AM
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lw9
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quote:
Giulia: Yes we ought to test the spirits against God's Spirit. If you truly do have the Holy Spirit in your heart why is it so hard to believe it is God speaking to you?
It's not hard at all to believe that God speaks to us. However, your premise that every dream is from God [post 21] is simply not substantiated by the Bible, just as the 'gift' of dream interpretation is not substantiated by the Bible. If you can substantiate these things Biblically, then please do.
We're not directed in any way to turn to our dreams for special messages and then seek out an interpreter. Turning to another source for information when the Bible hasn't told us to do this is where I raise the red flag.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 11/8/2007 11:14:32 AM >
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/8/2007 11:28:09 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I befriended a cat in my dreams last night -- one that was normally fiesty -- and it ended up being friendly toward me. Just before I woke, I saw it lying stretched out in the window sill, and I wondered if it was still friendly. I went over to see, reaching out my hand to pet it. It raised its head and looked at me then lay back and let me stroke it. I smiled. I had won it over.
Now, what does that dream mean to me? A lady told me yesterday that her daughter's cat attacked her because she teased it, and I was sleeping with Animal Planet on, having fallen asleep while watching a show about a black panther that was reared from its cubhood by a family.
Dreams are usually the influence of life upon our subconscience -- the food we ate, what someone said, what we did, the stress we are under, things we have gone through, a show we saw, concern over a friend, the job, our state of mind, etc. Certainly, for the believer, G-d has extreme influence in, and must extreme influence in, our lives as believers, but He is not the cause of every little thing, in my opinion. Shall I blame Him for the particularly bad dream I had a few days ago, which I forgot because it was best forgotten?
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 11/8/2007 11:36:31 AM >
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/8/2007 4:57:17 PM
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Giulia
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I don't discount, neither does the bible discount dream interpretation, as Daniel interpreted dreams and I am sure many others who we haven't read about also interpreted dreams. But if you don't believe God can speak to your subconscious then you need faith. If you have faith all things are possible and dreams can also have God meaning and direction.
And the bible does say the old men/women shall dream dreams and the young shall see visions, I have both. I am a mixture of both. When we argue against that, we argue against the bible.
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/8/2007 6:25:20 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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No, Gulia. No one is writing that G-d does not have the ability to speak through dreams. No one. What we are saying is that every dream cannot be a "word from G-d." I would further suggest that very few of the nighttime play times of our minds are messages from G-d.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/9/2007 7:34:13 AM
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Giulia
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So do you think God made us to spend whole nights thinking of meaningless trivialities?
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/10/2007 1:43:06 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Giulia, I wrote what I think. The time He gave us to relax, to be refreshed, to rebuild ourselves mentally and physically we call "sleep," and it was given to us because we are frail humans, and He knows we are but dust. Every dream is not a "Word From The L-rd." He, who made us, knew we needed this time, and He was not afraid to go to the other side of the lake for a little relaxation at times. Further, there are many examples of people sleeping in the Bible, and not all of them woke with profound dreams and visions.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/12/2007 11:57:29 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Some of my dreams are really disgusting, and I had one of those this morning. These occur after having seen leaders from the old church. Yesterday, I didn't see the leader from the old church but was in the same restaurant with him. That was all it took.
Since people from the old church are on Crosswalk, I won't go into the details of the very involved dream, except to say that it was disgusting. I wish I could get to the bottom of those recurring-theme dreams after being around those in the leadership there, so that the dreams would cease, but so far I haven't been able to, even though I left that church in 1999. I really don't want to think of those people in the terms I think of them in my dreams.
Such dreams cannot be from G-d: He would not demean them in that way. I believe they are from my own mind -- my own disgust with things that went on in that church. All those people were not bad; it was mainly the leadership that was bad.
I wonder if there is such a thing as asking the L-rd to heal our dreams and memories?
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/12/2007 12:56:08 PM
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lw9
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I also get recurring nightmares triggered by stressful events or thoughts during the day. Mine are sometimes self-induced. Example: I had a bad dream last night about one of my beloved cats getting loose at the beach and me frantically running after him terrified I wouldn't catch him with the other cat in my arms,afraid she would also get away...
Why? Because yesterday I had been contemplating how fun it would be to take our cats to a beach and see how they reacted to the waves and birds and smells. Oh, happy fun day at the beach... and then it all went so very horribly wrong [in my mind, anyway]. I thought, what if they get away? Well, we'd just have to put them on good harnesses, I told myself. But what if one of them squirmed out of the harness and I can't catch him? How will I ever get him back? What if he was lost for days, meowing and meowing for us all night long as little tears roll down his cold little face. Yeah, I know. Cats don't cry, but this is my anxiety-ridden halleucination, so we're just going to have to run with it. What if he's lost at sea and gets picked up by a passing ship on it's way to Singapore? What if he gets chased and eaten by a giant hermit crab... tears still running down his little face...
Clearly my stupid dream wasn't from God. It was a dream based on an absolutely ridiculous scenario that I myself created out of my own fears and anxieties about my cats getting loose.
On a side note: The kitties will not be visiting a beach anytime soon. 
Years ago, as God was drawing and calling me to Himself, I used to frequently have demonic dreams. I didn't have to think twice about it. I knew then and I still know today *who* the source of those dreams was. To attribute those to God would be blasphemous, I think.
quote:
Covaan_Meshuga: I wonder if there is such a thing as asking the L-rd to heal our dreams and memories?
Yes, I believe you should ask, and that He can heal them!!  I will keep you in my prayers, my friend.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 11/12/2007 1:57:00 PM >
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RE: Hence cometh...the Dream Interpreters - 11/12/2007 2:44:26 PM
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lw9
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Hi NanaSharon.
Why would God curse you with dream interpretation? As far as it being a gift, the NT lists all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Where can I find the gift of dream interpretation in there? Thanks.
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