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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 3/4/2008 8:42:24 PM
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Karaboo2
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From: Ontario, Canada
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My issues with BF started when dd (my first child) was born. She was born just before 4pm. By 8pm, the nurse came in and asked if she had done a 'full feeding' yet. I asked the def of a full feeding. Apparently (according to her) it was 20 minutes of active sucking per side -- so a 40 minute feed. I said no, that we were doing 10-20 minutes, as we were both still really sleepy from the birth less than 4 hours prior. The nurse FREAKED!!! Said the baby was going to starve and told me I HAD to pump and feed or else they would give her formula. She wheeled in the pump, got me hooked up to it, and turned it on full speed, full suction!!! It took less than 60 seconds to completely tear the tissue and whatnot on and around my nipples. I couldn't BF dd after that, as there was no longer milk coming out -- just blood. It eventually healed up (for the most part) but when I had ds, I discovered that there was so much scar tissue that BF wouldn't work (scar tissue was blocking the ducts). With #3 we didn't even try!!!
I had breast reduction surgery between #3 and #4. The PS was astounded at the amount of scar tissue he removed. I tried BF #4, and while I produced a tiny bit of milk, it wasn't enough at that point (#4 was born 10 months post-op, so the issue with BF didn't come as a surprise). I would BF then feed him a bottle of formula. Pumping didn't help either ... so he eventually switched to strictly formula -- however, he kept getting sick. Turns out he is allergic to the protein in milk, AND to soy. We ended up switching him to goat's milk and he is doing just fine now. (And I was trying all the natural ways to increase my supply)
We are now expecting #5. I will soon be starting into the herbals in an attempt to build up my supply pre-baby, and will also talk to my midwife about meds to increase supply as well. I would REALLY like one BF experience to go well ... but I'm not one to beat myself up if it doesn't. I'm just more worried that this one would have the allergy issues that #4 did (all the kids have major food sensitivities).
Oh, as for LLL -- there is one gal in town who was still allowing her 5 year old to BF instead of giving her a glass of milk -- this gal would latch on to mom both before and after school. This same gal attempted to rake me over the coals for not BF my firstborn after all the problems caused by the nurse and the hospital pump. Apparently I just didn't want it bad enough ... AARGH!!! I hate when people do and say things like that!!! (This is the same one who went after me when I started #3 on formula from the get-go ... even when I ended up having chemo a few months after the birth -- I 'should have tried more' even when having semi toxic drugs pumped into my system)
Anywho -- those are my issues, along with my mini-rant.
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 3/6/2008 2:03:53 PM
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DenimDiva
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From: CA
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BFing is great, but it's not for everyone. I can't imagine myself not bfing my children, then again, I can't imagine myself thinking of another mom as second-rate because she is using a bottle for whatever reason. We are women, we need to spend more time encouraging and uplifting each other.
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/3/2008 7:46:37 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5433
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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Just bumping this to the top, so that we don't lose it.
For the record, I half breast/half bottle fed my ds till he was 3 months old (then fully bottle fed), and half breast/half bottle fed my dd till she was 6 weeks old.
If anyone wants to ask about supplementing, it will be fine to ask questions here.
Did anyone else here supplement?
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/3/2008 8:22:38 PM
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nicole6598
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I did 
With Grace anyway, she got 1-2 bottles of formula at night. well she got 1 bottle, but if we went out or something she was left another bottle if she needed it. She had one bottle every night until she was weaned at about 11 mths. or I could of dropped it earlier, I can't really remember. But it worked for me and hubby, gave me a rest so I could get extra sleep before she woke again (hubby would stay up til like 11pm or something with her giving her the other bottle at say 10.30) I would be in bed at 9.30-10pm so I got a few hours sleep before she woke up again for another feed.
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/3/2008 8:57:31 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5433
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From: Hampshire, UK
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My ds was in Special Care (with meningitis) till he was 2 weeks old, and was being fed breast milk from me sometimes, breast milk from a bottle sometimes, and formula from a bottle sometimes.
When he came home, I tried to feed him on demand to increase my supply, but it just didn't work. Once I fed him and he threw up the whole feed and I was "empty". He was still hungry, and I was so glad I had some formula in. I tried again with breastfeeding but it just didn't work and I started giving him occasional bottle feeds with formula. I managed to keep him at half and half till he was 3 months old, then put him onto 100% formula.
With my dd, she had jaundice in hospital and needed top-up bottle feeds. I didn't have the resolve to try and exclusively breast-feed again, and so started on half and half. By 6 weeks, more quickly than I'd intended (I'd wanted to go to 3 months, if I could), she was exclusively bottle-fed, she preferred it.
Both were healthy and bright, and were hardly ever unwell.
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"I think my computer needs a "What Manda just said" button." 1mlasp July 2008
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/3/2008 9:09:40 PM
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peculiar_lady2
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Thanks Manda...I couldn't remember the name of it to pull it back up when this came up in the bfing thread. I knew you would remember it though....lol.
I have had to (or chose to) supplement before with certain kids at different ages...but my brain doesn't want to have to work that hard to remember who and when right now....anyway, I do have some experience in it.
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/4/2008 11:33:38 AM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2276
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
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We supplemented with boh my kids. With Timmy, I had supply issues, so we started giving him bottles occasionally. I can see where I made a lot of mistakes that doomed my supply, some of which was my lack of education in the matter and some was work related. I pumped, took herbs, then took medication to increase my supply, my lack of education and work schedule defeated all this though. We started giving him formula when he was about 2 months old and I stopped nursing completely when he was 7 months old.
With Jimmy, I had to use a bottle of formula to get him to stop screaming and panicking when I was trying to get him latched onto my breast in the beginning. I would give him the bottle for about 30 seconds then try to sneak my breast in there. I was able to give that up a couple weeks later. Then I noticed when he was anbout 6 weeks old (around the time my supply was low with Timmy) my supply got low, so I would give him two ounces of formula 4 times a day after nursing. I didn't waste any time with pumps and herbs, I went straight for the medication, and it worked. After about a month, I stopped giving him formula and my supply was up to par. Then he started getting colicky. He had really bad gas in the middle of the night, so I began giving him Enfamil Lipil, which is good for gassy babies in the middle of the night which helped, but then one night I got lazy and didn't feel like getting up, so I nursed him and the gas problem was gone. So I quit giving him formula in the middle of the night. From about 8 months to now, he has been biting me. The first time I tried to give him formuia because it was very upsetting, but he didn't want to drink it. He's 10.5 months old now, and I still nurse him. He bites me sometimes, but not so much that it makes me want to quit. I've only got a couple months to go before I try to wean, and I'm looking forward to it.
I am so thankful for formula, it has made my babies happier and it has saved me a lot of worry. It also gave my mom and hubby a chance to feed the kids, so that was nice too.
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/4/2008 4:36:57 PM
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DenimDiva
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With my youngest I had to occassionally supplement. She was in daycare because I went back to work when she was less than a month old. She got bottled breastmilk at daycare and occassionally they had to give her formula.
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/4/2008 6:08:41 PM
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IAMJulie
Posts: 304
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From: WA
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I had a breast reduction surgery before having #2, then she had issues in hospital and we had to give her formula which I insisted be done via syringe, she also had a high pallate and hated to "work" for her food so I feel like we were pretty much doomed from the start. I struggled with exclusively BFing until she was 3 months and then started supping with formula. BFing still didn't go well but then again neither was bottle feeding. Finally at about 5 or 6 months I quit BFing entirely because it was entirely too difficult to keep my supply up with a baby who wouldn't nurse properly and our feeding sessions always ended with us both in tears - and I figured out that the only way to get her to eat was to give her toddler nipples (i.e. very fast flow) on her bottles. She is almost 1 1/2 now and is still a "fast and furious" kind of kid. I had a wonderful BFing experience with #1 so I'm really hoping and praying for another excellent experience with #3 who is due any day.
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/4/2008 6:11:44 PM
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nicole6598
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Amen Sandy!! I hate it how people judge so quickly, none of us are in the others' shoes so back off is what I say!
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/10/2008 3:08:06 PM
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LaurainAL
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landabee: girl you are on a roll today and I agree with 100%! I am glad some one else sees things the same way.
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/10/2008 5:15:07 PM
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reach
Posts: 1191
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I just wanted to say AMEN! Sneaking back out! :)
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/10/2008 6:44:01 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 2587
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
Disapproval of choices made by other women cloaked in "godly counsel" and "educating women".
Exactly right, because if you are properly educated, you would've been able to breastfeed or birth naturally or "wear" your baby or co-sleep or whatever...
Because an educated woman never decides to do things differently... 
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/10/2008 6:59:35 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 2587
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Fair enough, but there is an extremely strong bias on these threads that I'm sure gets pretty frustrating for a lot of women. But I do notice that you try to reign in the more "aggressive" naturalists. Your fairness is sincerely appreciated.
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/10/2008 7:05:16 PM
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nicole6598
Posts: 3948
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From: Australia
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Manda asked in the opening post if women feel "guilted" into breastfeeding, I would say "yes". I think that is where the other posts are maybe coming from, well trying to come from, anyway...
I know I would LOOOVVVEE to stop breastfeeding, it would be so much easier if Nath would just eat solids and drink formula, and even when there was the thought that I might have to cut out a range of foods whilst breastfeeding I thought "I will just stop then" because I really couldn't be bothered going through all that hassle, but then I felt "guilted" because of that attitude I had (not just here, in real life too). I am going to breastfeed him aslong as I can I did it til 11 months with Grace, that will be the maximum I think with Nath because I don't enjoy it, I am only doing it because 1. I know its best for him 2. He wouldn't take formula now anyway. So for me, breast isn't best, but I know it is for him.
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/10/2008 7:12:44 PM
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nicole6598
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Laura I don't think I have that great a supply either. Grace screamed her head off all the time until she got that bottle at night she was content, Nath has settled somewhat and put on weight since solids 3 times a day, but there are other issues with him, but I just don't think there is enough there. Some women may have enough or want to let their baby suck all day long, but that's not ME, I can't do it. I need my space and if that makes me a terrible mum then I am a terrible mum.
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/10/2008 7:15:06 PM
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manda59
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Nicole
Sorry if I've missed something, but why did you say that Nath "wouldn't take formula now anyway"?
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/10/2008 7:16:48 PM
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PrincessDonna
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From: Cow country, Upstate NY
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Nicole, I don't think that makes you a terrible mom. And I do think mom's health, both physical and mental, has to come before the nursing relationship, or mom isn't going to be any good for anyone. What good is breastfeeding if you are always stressed and anxious? Those stress hormones also go through the milk to the baby. You need to weigh what is best for you and what is best for Nathan and just do what you find is best. Breastfeeding (or not!) is not a moral issue and there is no reason to feel guilty if you need to stop. If you feel anyone else is trying to make you feel guilty, you don't have to accept the judgment they are putting on you. If someone is judging, that is *their* issue...don't make it yours, KWIM?
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RE: When breast WASN'T best - 4/10/2008 7:19:17 PM
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nicole6598
Posts: 3948
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Australia
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well he has been on breastmilk exclusively from birth. I tried him on 2 diff types a month ago and he just spat it out. I don't think I can put him on it yet until I see the Paed and work out what is wrong with him anyway, even if he would take it.
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