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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 11:45:58 AM
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bob97
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From: Kansas
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quote:
I - will draw all men unto me - After I shall have died and risen again, by the preaching of my word and the influence of my Spirit, I shall attract and illuminate both Jews and Gentiles.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 11:56:04 AM
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Carico
Posts: 531
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
I - will draw all men unto me - After I shall have died and risen again, by the preaching of my word and the influence of my Spirit, I shall attract and illuminate both Jews and Gentiles.
Bob
Once again, you have to put all scripture together. Put that together with John 6:64 and Matthew 22:14 which we Calvinists do. The verse above means that salvation is not only just for the Jews but that God is now choosing people from all walks of life. Meanings are entirely different when reconciled with the whole bible instead of taken out of context with the rest of the bible.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 1:46:05 PM
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SureHope
Posts: 1578
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quote:
ORIGINAL: umcbee
quote:
Do you admit the error of your statement, “Your linking 'as it is written' to the previous verse is a serious error" or do you still hold to that view?
FG will do a fine job of answering this ; but I have an opinion : when Paul states "as it is written" , he is not refering to what he had just written , but to what was written in the OT .
If I have misunderstood how you are using it (to refer to what Paul had just written) , I apologize in advance .
I think you have misunderstood how I am using it. Yes, he is obviously referring to what was written in the OT. FG was trying to disconnect "all under sin" with the OT quotes. My point is that "as it is written" is in the context of what he had just stated and connecting it to the OT quotes. The "as" in "as it is written" shows that what went before is connected with what follows. This is clearly proven to be true by reviewing the passages that use the phrase "as it is written".
Blessings,
SH
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 2:01:09 PM
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SureHope
Posts: 1578
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SureHope
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: SureHope
FG,
quote:
Yes, we ARE commanded to love Him with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. But where is the passage that says that man was created to do this? Unless you have a solid verse of support, your whole argument falls apart.
Are you saying man is not created for that which he is commanded to do?
Are you saying that God did not create man to love Him?
If man was not created by God to love Him, why does God command man to love Him?
Why is it that the whole of the Law is wrapped up in this one command and God did not make man to love Him?
Why did you NOT answer my question? Where is your solid Biblical support for your claim? If man was created for that which you claim, where is your verse that says so?
4 questions in "response" to my question does NOT equal an answer.
Unless you have any solid support for your claim, your argument falls flat.
The answers to my 4 questions are the answer to your question.
God commands us to love Him, which shows he created us to love Him.
Unless you think that God commands that which He did not create us to do.
There is my answer,
Now, are you afraid to answer my questions FG? Give it a try, it won't hurt.
FG,
You never answered my questions concerning being created to love God.
Are you saying man is not created for that which he is commanded to do?
Are you saying that God did not create man to love Him?
If man was not created by God to love Him, why does God command man to love Him?
Why is it that the whole of the Law is wrapped up in this one command and God did not make man to love Him?
I am interested to hear back from you.
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 3:13:41 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: umcbee
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
There are a lot of negatives in that question, but I'll try and answer it. Man sins because it is in his nature to do so. I haven't ever denied that, that I can remember. If I did, it was unintentional. I simply don't agree that this nature includes the inability to look for a way out of the bondage of sin.
How have I contradicted myself, if you would be so kind as to point it out?
Jesus answers this in John 6;44 when talking about Judas: "This is why I tell you that no one can come to be unless the Father enables him."
But non-reformists don't believe Jesus there. They think that God enables everyone (which isn't true) but some people's natures are more righteous than others to choose to want God and the natures of others choose not to believe (as if anyone would choose hell over heaven). 
So the non-reformers contradict the bible and themselves because they claim to believe all of Christ's words but really don't. If you believed John 6:44, you would know that God does the choosing and that no one who isn't chosen can come to God.
And if you believed Jesus' words , you would believe John 12:32 .
You beat me to it!!!!
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 3:15:49 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
I - will draw all men unto me - After I shall have died and risen again, by the preaching of my word and the influence of my Spirit, I shall attract and illuminate both Jews and Gentiles.
Bob
Once again, you have to put all scripture together. Put that together with John 6:64 and Matthew 22:14 which we Calvinists do. The verse above means that salvation is not only just for the Jews but that God is now choosing people from all walks of life. Meanings are entirely different when reconciled with the whole bible instead of taken out of context with the rest of the bible.
John 6 doesn't say that God will refuse to enable all men, does it?
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 3:24:33 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
There are a lot of negatives in that question, but I'll try and answer it. Man sins because it is in his nature to do so. I haven't ever denied that, that I can remember. If I did, it was unintentional. I simply don't agree that this nature includes the inability to look for a way out of the bondage of sin.
How does one dead in sin, walking in the flesh, apart from the Spirit, unable to understand the things of the Spirit, even know they are in the bondage of sin? Their nature is such that they believe they not in any bondage but free... Those I know who don't believe in God tell me all the time that it is I who is in bondage because of what I believe and they are free to do as they please and how silly I am to think that some beared old man in the sky cares if I obey and worship Him because some people wrote a book...
John
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 3:28:18 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
I - will draw all men unto me - After I shall have died and risen again, by the preaching of my word and the influence of my Spirit, I shall attract and illuminate both Jews and Gentiles.
Bob
Once again, you have to put all scripture together. Put that together with John 6:64 and Matthew 22:14 which we Calvinists do. The verse above means that salvation is not only just for the Jews but that God is now choosing people from all walks of life. Meanings are entirely different when reconciled with the whole bible instead of taken out of context with the rest of the bible.
John 6 doesn't say that God will refuse to enable all men, does it?
Well...
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Not all....
John
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 3:35:21 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1905
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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quote:
John 6 doesn't say that God will refuse to enable all men, does it?
Mac...
The inference is all types of men…not all men inclusive. You probably understand this but just don’t want to acknowledge it.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 4:57:29 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
There are a lot of negatives in that question, but I'll try and answer it. Man sins because it is in his nature to do so. I haven't ever denied that, that I can remember. If I did, it was unintentional. I simply don't agree that this nature includes the inability to look for a way out of the bondage of sin.
How does one dead in sin, walking in the flesh, apart from the Spirit, unable to understand the things of the Spirit, even know they are in the bondage of sin? Their nature is such that they believe they not in any bondage but free... Those I know who don't believe in God tell me all the time that it is I who is in bondage because of what I believe and they are free to do as they please and how silly I am to think that some beared old man in the sky cares if I obey and worship Him because some people wrote a book...
John
They know because of our witness. I have been instructed to go into the world and spread the Gospel. Am I only spreading the Gospel to people God has already saved, or am I doing it to people who are slaves to sin and need to find a way out?
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 4:59:14 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
I - will draw all men unto me - After I shall have died and risen again, by the preaching of my word and the influence of my Spirit, I shall attract and illuminate both Jews and Gentiles.
Bob
Once again, you have to put all scripture together. Put that together with John 6:64 and Matthew 22:14 which we Calvinists do. The verse above means that salvation is not only just for the Jews but that God is now choosing people from all walks of life. Meanings are entirely different when reconciled with the whole bible instead of taken out of context with the rest of the bible.
John 6 doesn't say that God will refuse to enable all men, does it?
Well...
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Not all....
John
So some people decided not to follow Jesus. Nothing new there...
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 6:17:23 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
There are a lot of negatives in that question, but I'll try and answer it. Man sins because it is in his nature to do so. I haven't ever denied that, that I can remember. If I did, it was unintentional. I simply don't agree that this nature includes the inability to look for a way out of the bondage of sin.
How does one dead in sin, walking in the flesh, apart from the Spirit, unable to understand the things of the Spirit, even know they are in the bondage of sin? Their nature is such that they believe they not in any bondage but free... Those I know who don't believe in God tell me all the time that it is I who is in bondage because of what I believe and they are free to do as they please and how silly I am to think that some beared old man in the sky cares if I obey and worship Him because some people wrote a book...
John
They know because of our witness. I have been instructed to go into the world and spread the Gospel. Am I only spreading the Gospel to people God has already saved, or am I doing it to people who are slaves to sin and need to find a way out?
He plants and waters is nothing... It's God who causes the growth... Hence, He doesn't always cause growth...
John
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 6:19:11 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
I - will draw all men unto me - After I shall have died and risen again, by the preaching of my word and the influence of my Spirit, I shall attract and illuminate both Jews and Gentiles.
Bob
Once again, you have to put all scripture together. Put that together with John 6:64 and Matthew 22:14 which we Calvinists do. The verse above means that salvation is not only just for the Jews but that God is now choosing people from all walks of life. Meanings are entirely different when reconciled with the whole bible instead of taken out of context with the rest of the bible.
John 6 doesn't say that God will refuse to enable all men, does it?
Well...
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Not all....
John
So some people decided not to follow Jesus. Nothing new there...
No, not all were given to the Son, since all who are come to Him... Not all are "of us"...
John
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 6:55:08 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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I don't see that at all, but to each his own I guess....
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 7:41:07 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I don't see that at all, but to each his own I guess....
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Is everyone saved?
John
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 7:44:37 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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No of course not, but everyone has the opportunity.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 7:56:47 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1905
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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quote:
No of course not, but everyone has the opportunity.
100% correct but not everyone is drawn…there is a difference.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 8:02:56 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
No of course not, but everyone has the opportunity.
Not all are given to the Son by the Father... As well is says that we don't come to Him on our own, but by God... Those who came to Christ according to their will were rebuked by Christ and they left...
John
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 8:07:24 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
Status: offline
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Those who came to Christ for worldly reasons were rebuked. God wants everyone to be saved.
Where does the Bible say that not all are given?
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 8:12:42 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Those who came to Christ for worldly reasons were rebuked. God wants everyone to be saved.
Where does the Bible say that not all are given?
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
If all who are given come, and not everyone is saved how can all be given?
John
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 8:49:19 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 7663
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KingJamesBond
FreeGrace,
quote:
It seems that the calvinists don't believe in free will because they don't want to, in spite of clear Biblical proof that man chooses who he will serve, just as is also noted by Paul in Rom 6:16:
"Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness"?
You always avoid important text;
Romans 6
16Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.
18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Why does the text claim we give thanks to God that we wholeheartedly obeyed?
Because God made evident to everyone "that which is known about God", so that men would seek Him. That's why we should thank God when someone comes to faith. They responded to what He made evident.
quote:
With our free-wills at work, why dont we thank our own wills that we wholeheartedly obeyed?
Why should we?
quote:
The text is crystal clear.
I agree.
quote:
Your POV would have only your will to thank for your obedience to the gospel.
See above for correction of your mistaken understanding.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 8:51:28 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 403
Joined: 4/28/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
I - will draw all men unto me - After I shall have died and risen again, by the preaching of my word and the influence of my Spirit, I shall attract and illuminate both Jews and Gentiles.
Bob
Once again, you have to put all scripture together. Put that together with John 6:64 and Matthew 22:14 which we Calvinists do. The verse above means that salvation is not only just for the Jews but that God is now choosing people from all walks of life. Meanings are entirely different when reconciled with the whole bible instead of taken out of context with the rest of the bible.
Get a Greek new testament and it will solve your "all" means all types of people, the Greek word used in the bible 99% of the time means every individual.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 8:51:29 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 7663
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
Ex 35:28 and spices and oil for the light, for the anointing oil, and for the sweet incense. 29 The children of Israel brought a freewill offering to the LORD, all the men and women whose hearts were willing to bring material for all kinds of work which the LORD, by the hand of Moses, had commanded to be done.
No one has answered the question I have yet. Reformists say that you have to be born again/regenerated before you accept/chose Christ. Then how did Noah, David, etc etc old testament prophets chose God? They were not born again.
They chose God from the fact that they were free to do so. Recall, Acts 17:27 refers to everyone in the human race. God created everyone to seek Him. And some actually do.
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 8:51:33 PM
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KingJamesBond
Posts: 1595
Joined: 12/2/2006
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McFatty,
quote:
I agree that people aren't capable of meeting what is required by God without help, however once we have the Holy Spirit, anything is possible through faith. Jesus told us we could move a mountain by simply asking it to move. How much more could we love God with the Holy Spirit helping us?
I agree with you that all sorts of things are possible, but I dont think it means all sorts of things are probable.
The Holy Spirit is certainly powerful enough to keep a person from sinning and in that sense I would agree that it is truly possible.
I dont think we ourselves have the ability to be sinless even when we are saved.
So much for our ability. 
I think we are seen as sinless. 
I do not think it is probable that the Holy Spirit will keep any person sinless even though it is possible.
I think there is a reason for that.
When Christians sin it should be like a constant reminder of their need for mercy.
I think sin can keep a person humbled.
Any sin, even the slightest.....should show us (even as Christians) how much away from God we are and should give us no room to pride ourselves in how much we love God more than the other guy.
We were saved by grace.
Grace is unmerited favor.
That means we did nothing at all to merit salvation.
If I believed and was therefore saved because I believed........I merited the favor of salvation by doing something that the other guy did not do. I believed and he did not. That would mean I am saved because I did something, and the other guy is not saved because he did not do something.
In the true Biblical sense of sin and blindness the other guy is no better than the other guy, and the other guy is no better than the other guy, and the other guy is no better than the other guy.....and on and on it goes in the grand scheme of meeting what God requires.
When a person understands their true nature and how helpless they are to stop sinning......it is a profound reminder of how un-free our wills really are as we fail to meet what God demands.
I think if we have come to obey the gospel.....it is because God moved us to obedience.
It humbles a person when they understand they do not seek God with all their mind, heart, soul.
Here is text from Scripture;
For truly I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.
Most people that promote a free-will theory as if their wills just "believed" because they freely willed to "believe" run into a problem with that text.
Lets try going along the same thought pattern that if God commands people to have faith in His Son.......it must imply that they have the ability to do so.
If a person has the ability to freely-will and believe (trust, have faith).....it should be easy for them to demonstrate this ability they say they have.
That is not an unfair thing to ask.
If I tell you I have the ability to walk through walls it is not unreasonable for you to ask me to demonstrate this ability I say I have.
Those of an Arminian and free-will teaching should be able to demonstrate what they claim they are able to do. They claim that people have the ability to freely-will and believe.
I think they should freely choose with their free-will to have more faith than that of a mustard seed and command a mountain to move from here to there.
If they have this ability to just freely choose and believe.........what on earth hinders a free-will from having the ability to believe more than that of a mustard seed?
What hinders what is proclaimed to be so free?
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As far as the Bible saying we aren't supposed to sin, I agree. I believe the passage went something like, "Do not sin, but if you do sin, know that you have an advocate with the Father in Jesus Christ." I know that isn't word for word, but I can't remember where to find that verse. Romans, I think.
Well.....that text is written to Christians.
Un-believers do not have an advocate.
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Does this answer your question?
Well......I at least see where you are coming from. 
I say that God works faith in people and it does not have to be more than that of a mustard seed.
A small amount of faith in a great God and what He has done in me is much better than a gigantic amount of faith in my own will and how it is weak, fails, and is naturally hostile to God.
I dont have much good to say about my own will.
KJB
_____________________________
Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers
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RE: Calvinism/Arminianism - One Stop Thread - 7/24/2008 8:57:23 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 7663
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: online
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ORIGINAL: SureHope
FG,
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OK, I understand. You are ignoring the 3 times that God brought divine revelation to him.
No, not ignoring them at all. Those things happened, of course, but the question is, how did Corn come to believe. You have one view, I have another. Acts 10 does not address the issue. The point of Acts 10 is not answering the question if it is possible for a fallen man to have a sincere desire to please God without God initiating a work in his heart. It is just not there in the text.
What is so hard to understand about either believing or rejecting what is presented?
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We know from Rom 1 that no one has any excuse for not seeking God, and we ARE created to seek God, so why is it so "foreign" to you that you can't see that Cornelius simply was seeking the God who revealed Himself to him?
It depends on what you mean by "God who revealed Himself to him."
Just what Rom 1:19 says.
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I believe that no one comes to God until God does a work of grace in his heart and on that basis it is not foreign to me at all.
I believe that "work of grace" is when God made evident to mankind His existence, so that man would seek Him. Why is that hard to understand?
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Romans 1 is about all men are without excuse for sinning in the light of God making Himself evident to them through the means of creation. Those who dishonor God are sinning. Sin dishonors God. God made Himself evident to all men through creation. All men sinned. All men dishonored God. Cornelius was seeking God. Did that dishonor God or honor Him?
Just as I dishonored God by my sinfulness, so did Corn. Just as I, after God did a work of grace in my heart, began to seek God, so did Corn - and yes, that honors God and pleases Him.
Cornelius sought God, and that pleases God.
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I'm as interested as she is about your explanations of why man is accountable to God since God created man unable to do what God asks of him.
My response to her is public, you can read it if you want.
In my comment here, you indicated you would answer her if she asked. Now you seem to suggest that you have already done so. If so, which post # was it? Thanks.
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