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RE: John MacArthur - 9/8/2008 5:11:43 PM
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mcleod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
I just read the link to Dobson's article that Mike (Humbleinspirit) posted. Dobson begins by writing a sob story about the lifetime of rejection that Lee Harvey Oswald endured, and how that pain led him to assassinate JFK. While Dobson added a brief disclaimer that Oswald's struggles didn't excuse his behavior, the main argument does diminish the idea of personal responsibility. That attitude is exactly what MacArthur is combatting!
I grew up with rejection myself, but I was taught that the treatment I received in no way entitled me to behave badly. Maybe my mom should have validated my feelings, but her focus was on shaping my character. That's pretty much what Scripture teaches, if I understand it properly.
Seems to me that MacArthur simply wants Christians to stop whining about their "low self-esteem" long enough to accept personal responsibility. At that point, they can see the amazing grace of God through Jesus.
But I've noticed that, very often, people who claim to have "low self-esteem" tend to excuse their sin. I suspect MacArthur has noticed the same problem. I have a family member who claims to have "low self-esteem," and yet insists she is a good person and doesn't need either forgiveness nor salvation. In 37 years, I have not been able to interest her in the Gospel because, despite her "low self-esteem," she is unwilling to view herself as needing grace and mercy. As I see it, MacArthur's teachings are aimed at people like her!
I don't believe that low self-esteem is the problem in reconizing you have sin. I believe it is a arrogant brain in which you think you do no wrong. Now i could be wrong but 100% of the people I have encountered with not seeing their mistakes are very, And I mean very arrogant in their action and words.
I have also noticed. These people also believe that the other person has a chip on their shoulder and they are again perfect. Yet they will say they have done wrong things in the past. But I would like to know, because they won't admit to any wrong when spoken kindly about their faults.
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/8/2008 5:14:46 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
I just read the link to Dobson's article that Mike (Humbleinspirit) posted. Dobson begins by writing a sob story about the lifetime of rejection that Lee Harvey Oswald endured, and how that pain led him to assassinate JFK. While Dobson added a brief disclaimer that Oswald's struggles didn't excuse his behavior, the main argument does diminish the idea of personal responsibility. That attitude is exactly what MacArthur is combatting!
I grew up with rejection myself, but I was taught that the treatment I received in no way entitled me to behave badly. Maybe my mom should have validated my feelings, but her focus was on shaping my character. That's pretty much what Scripture teaches, if I understand it properly.
Seems to me that MacArthur simply wants Christians to stop whining about their "low self-esteem" long enough to accept personal responsibility. At that point, they can see the amazing grace of God through Jesus.
But I've noticed that, very often, people who claim to have "low self-esteem" tend to excuse their sin. I suspect MacArthur has noticed the same problem. I have a family member who claims to have "low self-esteem," and yet insists she is a good person and doesn't need either forgiveness nor salvation. In 37 years, I have not been able to interest her in the Gospel because, despite her "low self-esteem," she is unwilling to view herself as needing grace and mercy. As I see it, MacArthur's teachings are aimed at people like her!
DebbieLynne, that was one of the best posts I've read on any topic in over a month. Well put!
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/8/2008 10:56:11 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2750
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From: Raleigh, NC
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A true view of self-esteem
The cross is always ready, everywhere in wait for you. You cannot escape it wherever you run, for wherever you go, you carry yourself with you and will always find yourself. Turn yourself upwards, turn yourself inwards—everywhere you will find the cross, everywhere you must hold tight to patience if you will have inward peace and earn an everlasting crown. THOMAS À KEMPIS (C. 1380–1471)
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/9/2008 7:19:31 PM
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cog41
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Just started MacArthur's book Fool's Gold.
It emphasizes spiritual discernment using current trends/movements and issues in the church.
He is pretty hard on some things and I must say I want to check out some of people/books he mentions.
I do agree with him on the Purpose Driven materials.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/10/2008 12:35:49 PM
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davemiller7
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I've heard that's a good book. Maybe I'll get that one next. Right now, I'm waiting for the 20th anniversary edition of "The Gospel According To Jesus" to arrive.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: cog41
Just started MacArthur's book Fool's Gold.
It emphasizes spiritual discernment using current trends/movements and issues in the church.
He is pretty hard on some things and I must say I want to check out some of people/books he mentions.
I do agree with him on the Purpose Driven materials.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/10/2008 3:13:39 PM
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bride48
Posts: 5529
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From: Near Boston
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cog41
Just started MacArthur's book Fool's Gold.
It emphasizes spiritual discernment using current trends/movements and issues in the church.
He is pretty hard on some things and I must say I want to check out some of people/books he mentions.
I do agree with him on the Purpose Driven materials.
What are some of his thoughts on Purpose Driven?
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
And Paul Smith Is Such A Non-Descript Name... (my latest blog entry)
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/11/2008 5:10:29 AM
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cog41
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quote:
What are some of his thoughts on Purpose Driven?
While agreeing that purpose driven offers biblica concepts, MacArthur points out the use of dozens of scriptural translations and versions. Not that that is bad thing but he makes the point that the scriptures are are misused and taken out of context just to make a point or draw a conclusion to support Warren's opinion. Thus MacArthur says this leads to misinterpretation and wrong methods of interpretation.
It also tends to water down the message of repentance and w/o it one faces the wrath of God.
MacArthur isan't saying the whole book should be about wrath and hell and turn or burn but the message shouldn't be left out.
I started reading the book 3-4 yrs ago. I got to about the 4th chapter and felt like I was reading another marketing program the church had come up with. May help some folks but it wasn't for me.
He points out that being seeker sensitive it minimizes the gospel message.
He gives mor but that's some as you asked.
There is also a chapter on the Resolve New Testament for teen girls. WOW! He really comes down that one.
I'm going to check out that one. I didn't know it existed so I'll be taking a look.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/11/2008 8:14:39 AM
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earthless
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Another sad fact is that the PDL has been the reason for the downfall of several prominent churches in my area alone. But the whole PDL discussion is for another thread and another time, I am sure there probably is a one-stop thread for it already anyway.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/11/2008 2:51:26 PM
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cog41
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MacArthur also has a chapter on John Eldrege's "wild at Heart".
I haven't read the book, but then again I probably wont.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/11/2008 3:23:28 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1904
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cog41
MacArthur also has a chapter on John Eldrege's "wild at Heart".
I haven't read the book, but then again I probably wont.
I have that book.
Couldn't make it past the first chapter.
I have read the entirety of PDL, however. Talk about superficial.... 
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/11/2008 5:10:24 PM
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davemiller7
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We got the PDL soon after it came out. I got a couple of chapters read and couldn't bring myself to finish it. Then our church began a study of it in one of the Sunday School classes. Went for about three weeks and gave up. Now, several years later, the only thing that stuck with me was Warren's "It's not all about you." Well, I knew that before......
-Dave
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/11/2008 5:28:41 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
We got the PDL soon after it came out. I got a couple of chapters read and couldn't bring myself to finish it. Then our church began a study of it in one of the Sunday School classes. Went for about three weeks and gave up. Now, several years later, the only thing that stuck with me was Warren's "It's not all about you." Well, I knew that before......
-Dave
[Soapbox]
Dave, that's about all I remember from PDL too. And for that reason alone I was glad to see that that single message got out to a whole generation or two that think everything from the carpet to the music key to the pastor's attire to even the sermon's 3rd point is only about them.
"I didn't get anything out of..." seems to be the new mantra. Of course not, they're there for the wrong reasons, plus they aren't willing to put anything in.
If we would hand out the message on 3x5 cards every week with, "It's not all about you," then I think we could chunk the book and begin doing what the Church is supposed to do and assemble for the reasons we should.
[/Soapbox]
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/11/2008 8:08:22 PM
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davemiller7
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Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Great idea, Jimbo! I wonder how many people would be affected. I'd like to think at least some would.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
We got the PDL soon after it came out. I got a couple of chapters read and couldn't bring myself to finish it. Then our church began a study of it in one of the Sunday School classes. Went for about three weeks and gave up. Now, several years later, the only thing that stuck with me was Warren's "It's not all about you." Well, I knew that before......
-Dave
[Soapbox]
Dave, that's about all I remember from PDL too. And for that reason alone I was glad to see that that single message got out to a whole generation or two that think everything from the carpet to the music key to the pastor's attire to even the sermon's 3rd point is only about them.
"I didn't get anything out of..." seems to be the new mantra. Of course not, they're there for the wrong reasons, plus they aren't willing to put anything in.
If we would hand out the message on 3x5 cards every week with, "It's not all about you," then I think we could chunk the book and begin doing what the Church is supposed to do and assemble for the reasons we should.
[/Soapbox]
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/14/2008 6:24:56 PM
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cog41
Posts: 626
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From: The Great State of Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cog41
Just started MacArthur's book Fool's Gold.
It emphasizes spiritual discernment using current trends/movements and issues in the church.
He is pretty hard on some things and I must say I want to check out some of people/books he mentions.
I do agree with him on the Purpose Driven materials.
I must say MacArthur doesn't write each chapter. He is the general editor of the book and writes about four chapters. The others are written by Grace Community staff and or Master's seminary staff.
Their chapters on altar calls and contempory church music and worship are very interesting.
They do provide important questions that we should consider about church music.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/20/2008 8:18:02 AM
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humbleinspirit
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John MacArthur's latest series is actually refreshing. While I believe he is preaching to the choir, I believe that his opinions of evolutionists and liberal thinking is right on for once.
I just finished listening to his weekend broadcast: Grace To You Weekend.
Just one issue, he mentions that we will never be fulfilled in this life. Kinda sounds odd to me as Jesus said that He came to give life and life more abundantly! Sure, we will never have satisfaction in material things, but I do believe God can give us the life that He promises.
I am glad that he clarified wanting to be more like Christ and the battle of the flesh in general, so that was a help.
At the end of the program, he eluded to Romans 1 though, and well I do not see how that fits the rest of it and makes me think that he is being judgmental again instead.
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/20/2008 12:34:06 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Just one issue, he mentions that we will never be fulfilled in this life. Kinda sounds odd to me as Jesus said that He came to give life and life more abundantly! Sure, we will never have satisfaction in material things, but I do believe God can give us the life that He promises.
We can never be completely satisified in this life as we will still be touched by the effects of sin and the fall. If we were to be complete in this life, why would there be a heaven?
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/20/2008 4:39:41 PM
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bride48
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From: Near Boston
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quote:
Just one issue, he mentions that we will never be fulfilled in this life. Kinda sounds odd to me as Jesus said that He came to give life and life more abundantly! Sure, we will never have satisfaction in material things, but I do believe God can give us the life that He promises.
So many Chinese, Russian and Turkish Christians (among others) are in prison for their commitment to the Lord. Are they completely fulfilled? How abundant are their lives? I'm certain that their hope is in heaven.
MacArthur's point in saying we'll never be fulfilled in this life is that we need to keep our hope in heaven. We are aliens in this life, and we can't cling to it. But when we finally see Jesus face-to-face, we'll know true fulfilment!
Anyway, if memory serves me correctly, MacArthur made that comment in reference to Prosperity Theology.
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
And Paul Smith Is Such A Non-Descript Name... (my latest blog entry)
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/20/2008 4:43:51 PM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
Anyway, if memory serves me correctly, MacArthur made that comment in reference to Prosperity Theology.
But it was in the link that I posted, he wasn't talking about prosperity theology at all today.
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/20/2008 5:27:27 PM
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bride48
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Okay, I just listened to the broadcast. Again, though, I think you're taking MacArthur out of context. The implication of evolution is that this life is all there is. Therefore, any abundant life would be strictly material. There is no spiritual diminsion in evolution, so for evolutionists, fulfillment can't be defered until heaven.
I think MacArthur's point is that some evolutionary thinking has seeped into Christian circles. We expect all God's promises to be fulfilled in this life. But there's more to life than just our time on this earth, Mike. As abundant as our blessings are now, complete fulfillment comes in heaven! That's all MacArthur's trying to say!
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
And Paul Smith Is Such A Non-Descript Name... (my latest blog entry)
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/20/2008 5:34:07 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Yes Deb, I do believe that complete fulfillment is only in heaven, however Jesus did say that He would give life and more abundantly, or some translations life and life fuller! I want life fuller, that does not come without trials and tribulations, but in my heart I want to experience this life that Jesus speaks of instead.
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/20/2008 5:46:39 PM
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bride48
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From: Near Boston
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
Yes Deb, I do believe that complete fulfillment is only in heaven, however Jesus did say that He would give life and more abundantly, or some translations life and life fuller! I want life fuller, that does not come without trials and tribulations, but in my heart I want to experience this life that Jesus speaks of instead.
But I believe you're taking MacArthur out of context. I don't think he was refuting John 10:10. He was discussing the implications of evolution, one of which is that nothing exists beyond this life. It's fine to disagree with MacArthur, but plese don't take him (or anybody) out of context when disagreeing.
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
And Paul Smith Is Such A Non-Descript Name... (my latest blog entry)
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/20/2008 9:02:53 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2750
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From: Raleigh, NC
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Doesn't it boil down to a matter of perspective? We know we are "not home yet" and we "egarly await our redemption." Yet, we know that while we are in exile, we will always have our needs met and that each new day is a gift from God.
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/23/2008 3:03:16 PM
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Sammy_S
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John Macarthur has been such a leader in this almost Christless Christian generation..
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Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/25/2008 7:39:57 PM
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cwb
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From: Eastern NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
Well lets see, there was the time he went on a tangent about kids misbehaving in school and said that they need to behave, not take Ritalin. Thats just the tip of the ice berg.
Basically it comes down to this. Who is he to decide who is saved or not?
This post is not a good post. No argument is made, there is no point addressed, etc., ...
_____________________________
We are to do the will of God from our heart. Eph Ch 6 v. 6
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RE: John MacArthur - 9/25/2008 7:47:06 PM
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cwb
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From: Eastern NC
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Lordship salvation? What in the world does that mean?
Sounds like religious babble...
If it's salvation through Christ and Christ alone, I don't think such terminology is necessary, is it?
_____________________________
We are to do the will of God from our heart. Eph Ch 6 v. 6
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