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John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 12:37:35 AM
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asker
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In 1988 MacArthur charged that the church has been taken over by a false gospel. Is he right?
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 3:25:54 AM
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Decrease
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Yes! I would have a smart retort but I am afraid of offending people :)
Yet, by the way, I do not think MacArthur would have said it how you said it for he probably would have objected to the phrasing of your statement. If you are asking whether we are experiencing a time of serious perversion and ignorance of the Gospel or a watering down of the Gospel or theologically whether we are in a time of Downgrade, he would agree.
I would encourage the reading of "Ashamed of the Gospel" and his tape series, "Does the Truth Matter Anymore" published by Cross TV. I read the book back in 1998 and it changed me tremendously for the good. I was on staff at a church being pulled into many directions theologically and his book confirmed in me that I was not crazy. His book encouraged me to stick to the important things in ministry and I am forever grateful to MacArthur for writing such a book.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 3:44:19 AM
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SonInMe1
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We have a study book called the LifeWay series which Mr. MacArthur often contributes. In one issue he says to take eight prophecies about the Messiah from the OT and to have those manifest themselves in the life of one man would be 10 to the 17th power to one odds.
Ok, its statistical. McArthur backed up this stat by saying an independant think tank backed up his figures.
What he did not say was not only did he start the think tank, he also is the president of the think tank.
To me, Mr MacArthur has lost credibility.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 4:24:59 AM
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Son,
I would like a citation on this one because, personally, I never have seen John MacArthur of Grace to You contribute to any Southern Baptist Literature, as a Pastor who has served exclusively in SBC churches. Also, I do not know of any think tank out there as well. I know of and have ways of contacting his editor and have, in the past, asked him about somethings like this to confirm or deny them. If there seems any credibility in this story, I will ask him.
About 10 years ago there was a rumor about John MacArthur that I read and I actually wrote John asking him if it were so. I received about a five page response from one of his writers (which impressed me, a man of his stature having writers who just respond to letters, and not with short retorts but long letters). It turns out that the author who cited John did not cite John. John was so appalled by the statement he contacted the author asking him to show where he made a mistake so John could correct it. Yet, the other author refused and kept bashing John over the issue. I have read most of John MacArthur's works and, to be honest, I never saw that "heresy" that this person wrote about.
MacArthur is mostly just a Pastor who also has Grace To You and the College and Seminary.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 4:27:00 AM
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BTW, for the record, that had nothing to do with the statement John made as well you didn't answer the question posed to us.
Oh, and if John MacArthur truly did contribute regularly to SBC literature, I probably would not be so anti-SBC literature.
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May I Decrease that He may Increase
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 6:51:20 AM
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timf
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There is nothing particularly significant about 1988. There have been and continue to be many false gospels. The American churches were being largely taken over by liberalism and the social gospel in 1888. Many seminaries were turning to deism in 1788. The so called enlightenment (man glorying in himself) was blossoming in 1688.
MacArthur has a good heart and has put much effort in contending for the faith. If he can be faulted for anything, it might be that using organizational systems has created a type of "MacArthur machine" that makes him into an icon that diverts people from the one he hopes to point them to.
As an icon, even his casual observations often get packaged as doctrinal dogman and defended as denominational distinctives. There are many MacArthur-an churches just as there are Luther-an churches.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 7:36:46 AM
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greatdivide46
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In answer to the OP I would say, "No". In fact I'm not even convinced that MacArthur made such a statement, since no citation is given, whereby it could be verified.
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The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 7:55:07 AM
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earthless
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Great writer, pastor, and brother in the Lord.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 9:13:05 AM
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asker
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Sorry. I really should have included the reference. Here is what he wrote in the intro to his best selling book ever, "The Gospel According to Jesus."
The gospel in vogue today holds forth a false hope to sinners. It
promises them they can have eternal life yet continue to live in
rebellion against God. Indeed, it encourages people to claim Jesus as
savior yet defer until later the commitment to serve Him as Lord. It
promises salvation from hell but not necessarily freedom from
iniquity. It offers false security to people who revel in the sins of the
flesh and spurn the way of holiness. By separating faith from
faithfulness, it leaves the impression that intellectual assent is as
valid as wholehearted obedience to the truth. Thus the good news of
Christ has given way to the bad news of an insidious easy-believism
that makes no moral demands on the lives of sinners. It is not the
same message Jesus proclaimed. This new gospel has spawned a
generation of professing Christians whose behavior often is
indistinguishable from that of the unregenerate. . . . Theirs is a
damning false assurance.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 11:28:08 AM
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Again, I agree with MacArthur.
Secondly, John MacArthur has done things that do make him a blessing to the Christian Church that I believe is God centered. Look at his ministry and the distinctions I see in his ministry:
1. Expository Preaching. The revival of expository preaching was much needed and helpful. If churches are being designed around this, sign me up for it makes the Bible the focus of your preaching and the message of the text the message of your sermon.
2. Defending the Gospel. John MacArthur has probably been the preeminent person in defending the true Gospel against, of all places, Christians. Through clear exposition of Scripture, he has been more attacked by Christians who have rejected the historic definition of the Gospel than by even atheists.
3. The Sufficiency of Scripture. MacArthur has caused Christians to think through the Scriptures and how they play better than most in our modern era. He is not into the modern philosophies of Christianity but getting back to historic understandings of Scripture.
4. He is known for his dispensationalism. This is wear I break with him. He has been referred to as a leaky dispensationalist, but he is probably one of the most thoughtful dispensationalists out there.
Someone said that he has made a group of people who follow him. I would say that how he has led them has been focused on the Gospel and the Scriptures. I do not agree with John MacArthur in everything, but he is one of the best expositors I have ever heard.
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May I Decrease that He may Increase
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 1:30:01 PM
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Gloryandgrace
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I enjoy and Im edified by John M.
Im very happy he has come out and said what he said in "Gospel according to Jesus"
I also loved "hard to believe".
God be thanked for raising up men like this to lead the body.
John
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 2:07:12 PM
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cog41
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I like John MacArthur. I like his teaching and much of his style and his challenge to study. He and the late Adrian Rogers are two of the few I prefer to hear on the radio.
I also like Allistar Begg.
Uhmm,hope I spelled his name right.
Anyway, all of them can and will say things from time to time that will cause a stir or fuss from someone.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 5:06:42 PM
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asker
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Decrease,
Did I adequately document my original statement?
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 6:42:59 PM
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Asker,
I think anyone who know MacArthur's work knew what you were originally saying. So, whether you documented it properly is not the issue, I understood it.
Derick
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 6:56:42 PM
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cog41
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Yes, you posted clearly.
Statements or words like false gospel,watered down gospel,soft message,a modern gospel for modern man,kinder gentler Jesus etc.etc. are going to bring criticism or rebuke from liberals and conservatives alike. Especially if they come from a well respected conservative evangelical pastor like John MacArthur.
Many people are just afraid to confront the truth.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 10:09:59 PM
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humbleinspirit
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I can sum up John MaCarther and Grace to you in the following words. There does not seem to be much grace coming from him.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/4/2007 10:13:19 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Hi Crankius and thanks!
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 12:26:42 AM
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Humble,
What do you mean? There is a distinction between grace insofar as loving people and compromise insofar as not speaking truth. If they are unloving and do not care for people, I would like to know. Yet, if they are speaking truth of God's Word and that is taken as uncaring, that is a different issue.
Jesus was the most caring of all people. Yet, he was straight forward when he spoke of the error of the day whether through the Pharisees, the den of thieves, or any number of issues. He was straight forward on doctrine and theology but even John recognized He was a man of love and Grace.
So, I would like for clarification on why you think he is not full of grace. Is it based upon the Biblical stands he takes or upon his rudeness towards people?
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 12:29:52 AM
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lw9
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quote:
humbleinspirit: I can sum up John MaCarther and Grace to you in the following words. There does not seem to be much grace coming from him.
For those of us who know next to nothing about John Macarthur, the above comment isn't helpful. Can you at least explain?
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 12:34:12 AM
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asker
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Before we can answer whether MacArthur is full of grace, I think we should define "grace." Years of studying what the Bible has to say about saving grace caused me to pen this definition which I was shown later matched the Strong's definition: Saving grace is "the free gift of instruction and power behind a walk of personal holiness." (Titus 2:11-14, I Cor 15:10, etc)
Sometimes when he uses the word "grace" I think he is refering to the biblical definition.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 2:07:26 AM
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Decrease
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For those who do not know John MacArthur, you can go to his website here:
http://www.gty.org/index.php
There is much there to enjoy and to judge for yourself.
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Soli Deo Gloria
May I Decrease that He may Increase
http://www.thedickensfamily.org
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 6:02:30 AM
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tony.nz
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I have a MacArthur Study Bible, and I enjoy the commentary. There may be occasions when I don't agree, but for goodness sake I think we need to start to be less judgmental of each other.
quote:
I can sum up John MaCarther and Grace to you in the following words. There does not seem to be much grace coming from him.
Did you hear what you said?
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 7:15:23 AM
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DaveW
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I have listened to McArthur in years past and for the most part enjoyed him. As he and I do not share the same theological bent, there are some things I disagree with him on, mostly on his insistance of cessationism and OSAS.
He is absolutely right about this "easy believism" that requires no change of life for the believer. While it is absolutely true that we are saved by faith and not works, we must not forget James' assertation that "Faith without works is dead." If someone confesses Christ but has no change in his/her life, it cannot be true biblical faith that motivates the person but mere mental ascent; i.e. they agree with the claims of christianity intelectually but not at a spiritual level. That will save noone.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 8:30:49 AM
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its_GO_time
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
I can sum up John MaCarther and Grace to you in the following words. There does not seem to be much grace coming from him.
If "grace" is passivity, and "bury-your-head-in-the-sand-hope-it-will-go away", then you're probably right, there isn't much of that coming from him.
But, if you want to hear, or read from a preacher, that is grounded in the Gospel, he is hard to beat. He may very well be right in his assesment of the feel good movement of the Church these days.
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Hi humbleinspirit! 
