RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post too.
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/17/2007 3:34:50 PM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
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Then I'll whine in the silence of my own mind
I'll complain to myself.... when no one else cares
Those moments that I find something of mine
actually recieved by someone else then I'll rejoice....
then I also try my best to remind myself
this supposed gifting....
who gave it to me...
my God... whom I love
First off... whom I trying to please
not men... it'll never be good enough for them
something will always be wrong
something will always be missing
Even in my seemingly futile attempts at writting
may God... first be pleased with it
for without his inspiration which he gives me
how could I write... anything at all...
Even though their words
which I try to take into some account
which in my hopes to better what I'm doing
only slicing.. cutting words that leave scars
Take it in silence
as I try again and again
in hope of finding rare joy in reception
only to be cut down...
As a writer I can't... speak of such things
as a writer I should just suck it up
deal with it .... that's the real world
so what...
Its one thing.... to give critism... oh sure I should just suck it up and deal with it. That's the real world of writting.... getting cut down... trying to climb a mountain which few truly reach the top. Along the way... you get cut.. you slip and fall... you at moments just want to give up. Forget it, but yet something inside you says "NO" and you keep trying .... even though all you'll get... is another slap in the face... I guess I'll just shut up about this now, since... its the "real world" and I'll just have to deal with it some how.
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/17/2007 7:38:54 PM
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techne
Posts: 562
Joined: 4/12/2005
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a question: are you posting your stuff just to post it?
what do you want out of this forum?
_____________________________
And when people cease to believe that there is good and evil
Only beauty will call to them and save them
So that they still know how to say: this is true and that is false.
One more day by Czeslaw Milosz
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/17/2007 8:39:31 PM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
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I was hoping to have something sort of like I had in... youthfire. I guess here its more of stricter critiquing deal. Like you post, you'll get critiqued. I just hoped I wouldn't be defending everything I write or do.
There... you shared stuff... and I guess it wasn't so heavy on the critiguing. I dunno... I guess... I didn't really understand what to expect here.
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/17/2007 10:39:39 PM
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techne
Posts: 562
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cries-within
I was hoping to have something sort of like I had in... youthfire. I guess here its more of stricter critiquing deal. Like you post, you'll get critiqued. I just hoped I wouldn't be defending everything I write or do.
There... you shared stuff... and I guess it wasn't so heavy on the critiguing. I dunno... I guess... I didn't really understand what to expect here.
i think it depends on who looks at it (e.g. age and/or maturity of the writing community - as well as your own age and experience - and experience as writers, through both formal education and publishing), but more (as i've learned) on what you state you want. be clear. if you just want to post without comment - fine. if you want real critique, i think there are people here who could provide some good advice for improving your writing. if the only commentary you desire is people telling you how wonderful your poetry is, show your mom.
unfortunately, family members and church members often do irreperable damage to writers in the early stages of their development by only saying nice things, and often without any real idea of what good writing is. for proof, watch the american idol auditions: how many of those (be honest, now) sincere but atrocious singers truly thought they were great because of family input? there is a difference between people encouraging you and being supportive, and being clueless about what constitutes good writing. then again, i'm admittedly a snob. and demanding. but, i think (i hope - elena?), pretty fair.
just be clear what you want, and don't be defensive. nobody here is trying to make you feel badly about yourself. anyone who comments on or critiques your work is doing it to help you become a better writer. besides, you are not obligated to say yes to anything anyone suggests - you must decide based on your intent. so perhaps your intent would be a good thing to share. ultimately, however, you will need to face how well your intent and what you've (actually) accomplished in the poem mesh or align. that's when the serious work begins. it either works or it doesn't - there is no need to defend. simply figure out what truth there is, and whether there is merit to the criticism, and then work on that in another poem (or the same poem). and that's your choice.
so here's another question: would a discussion of what a critique is or is not, and how to deal with it and what it means for you as a writer (i.e. why a good critique is useful) would be helpful?
_____________________________
And when people cease to believe that there is good and evil
Only beauty will call to them and save them
So that they still know how to say: this is true and that is false.
One more day by Czeslaw Milosz
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/18/2007 9:27:29 PM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
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I think maybe it would.... I guess its hard for me not to be so defensive when it comes to people critiquing. I guess... its because of well at lot of reasons and not just writting.
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/19/2007 12:37:46 AM
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techne
Posts: 562
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okay...so what do you think critique should be?
and why do you think you react the way you do to critique?
_____________________________
And when people cease to believe that there is good and evil
Only beauty will call to them and save them
So that they still know how to say: this is true and that is false.
One more day by Czeslaw Milosz
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/19/2007 11:15:41 AM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
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A critique should give honest critism... things that can be improved on, and maybe suggestions as to how to do that.
It should also point out any good things that a person sees in the work. That way they can see what they're doing right, not just hear what they're doing wrong.
As far as why I think I react the way I do to critiques
Mmm... how can I put this in a short enough explanation...
To many bad experiences really....with that one class.... and other times which don't involve writting. (going into that would involve me complaining about something stupid... so I won't go there) Also possibly I just don't handle critism very well... (bad thing)
I do know from taking a communications class. That some people just communicate differently when it comes to critism. Some are blunt... some soften it a little (says the good things too). I guess for me I perfer the soften kind of critism... not just .... the "This isn't right... or this isn't either... that's wrong.." and that's it nothing said about what is good about the work.
Basically it...
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/19/2007 2:03:11 PM
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Elena1030
Posts: 545
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: Music City, USA
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I suppose that when I read poetry, I'm looking for inventiveness and creativity... for example—comparisons and contrasts I've not read before, words put together in new ways, rhythms that are interesting, experimentation with alliteration.
What I'd like to see from you, Jewels, is more showing than telling, in your writing.
This is telling:
Then I'll whine in the silence of my own mind
I'll complain to myself.... when no one else cares
Those moments that I find something of mine
actually recieved by someone else then I'll rejoice....
Something like this, would be showing:
Writer and fan live in the selfsame space
whining about deaf ears and blind eyes,
warming the chilled room with fires
of passion and ambition.
Then suddenly, an invitation arrives.
A welcome is extended.
And a new threesome is formed.
Writer, fan, and fan!
Celebrate!
It's an occasion deserving of
cakes and punch,
streamers and confetti.
Of course, the second version probably needs to have the images extended---a bit more description to really draw in the reader to the feelings... without TELLING the reader what one feels.
Make sense?
_____________________________
"We're not odd, we're just over-expressive."—Helen in Howard's End
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/19/2007 2:14:27 PM
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Elena1030
Posts: 545
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: Music City, USA
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Here's a challenge for you:
Take this description that you wrote in prose, and use the ideas to make it a poem. Describe the house to me, as if you were painting a series of pictures about it. About its exterior and its interior. Help me see how the characteristics of this house = your feelings and experiences.
quote:
the home I mentioned:
* It's gloomy, like a stormy day when the clouds are so dark. You know any second you'll see a flash of lighting, or it'll rip open and rain will come gushing forth.
* It's cold—a bitter winter day, one during which no matter what you do it seems you can't ever really get warm.
* It's painful, because the echoes of things they said just ring in ears so loud that it hurts. You can't even think.
* Your dreams feel as if they were crushed and shattered to billion little pieces, a broken glass sculpture.
Help me see the gloominess of the interior, feel the bitter cold, hear the sharp echoes, and see the broken glass sculpture.
Was the house always this way? Or did someone do something to damage it? I know that the house is a symbol. But all of the components to its story---how the house came to be like it is---can symbolize different parts of YOUR story. 
What does the sculpture look like? I'm intrigued by that idea. Is it the sculpture of a young girl? A quill pen? A typewriter? A crystal vase? An animal? What might represent your dreams?
How did the sculpture get shattered? Was it thrown? Was it knocked against the wall? Was it accidentally and carelessly knocked off a shelf? Did someone grind it under the heel of his boot?
Where had the sculpture been displayed before it was crushed?
See how these types of questions can help you refine your ideas?  
_____________________________
"We're not odd, we're just over-expressive."—Helen in Howard's End
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/19/2007 9:35:05 PM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
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Look... i don't know how to write this way... I've tried many times Elena honest...
It just never works... I'm not sure I can do the level of description you're talking about.
Still... here's my attempt...
The gloominess is so oppresive its hard to breathe.. like being held underwater... and not being able to come up for air. Shadows rements of the light which was once there beautiful and illuminating... soon fading to darkness. Their words that echo... over and over in your mind... a broken record . Sharp and slicing words. Their so called helping their teasing name calling... the inflicted pain to be relived each new moment. Their words shrieking in your ears... yelling it... over and over,till you cry out in pain to no avail. You don't want to believe... it... lies... lies... you try to tell yourself... your writtings aren't worthless...you're not worthless, your feelings, and thoughts aren't worthless. Again and again it plays over and over... you try to make it stop... but it won't end it only gets louder. Though you hate it... slowly you begin to believe it. That's when it begins... to happen. The glass sculpture.. it was formed long ago... only to be discovered years later. Its beauty is something no real words... can capture... nor is it truly described. The inspiration... gift given you lighting striking sand turning it to pure glass... freazing the lighting into a formation. You discover it one day....this occurence that is now yours... Its one of your most precious treasures...its priceless to you.
When you utter it outloud... when those words... of defeat reach your mind... maybe its true... maybe they're right. When you believe what you've been hearing... all this time.. despite all your denial... being struck down again and again...hearing those words over and over again. Its unavoidable.. maybe you were just blinded...maybe you were clueless, what do you know anyway. When you've tried... and failed over and over and over. When the words of defeat finially escape your lips... that which you treasured so dearly. The words a percing note that joins with the words you keep hearing... and it shatters the glass sculpture. That which you prized...you try to write again only to see that its useless... you can't. You try to put the pieces back together... but the tiny shards cover the floor...looking almost like the sand that they were before the lighting struck it. You can't do it. Why bother? Why try anymore... its worthless anyway. Why try to form words... when its a disgrace to writting? You clasp the shards what's left of your dreams... what's left of what you thought you had. The blood drips down, from your hand. You weep.... wanting only.... now for the pain to stop... In your mind... is a picture now... the sculpture breaking... the moment replayed over again and again. Its replaced what they've said... the damage was done... its broken... You can't fix it. You can do nothing but cry... wish for away out of this place. This nightmarish place... that's become your home and you can't escape it. No warmth of hope to keep you alive... its so cold... and dead.... all your aware of is pain...excruciating pain and anger threating to break and shatter you. You want it to end... the nightmare... you want to wake up.. you want it to go away. This... this is your reality. This is your new home, and there's no way out.
There you have it... *sighs* .... I don't know if its clear to you now or not. Thats what it was like.... knowing that the most precious thing you had... you let those other people get to you. You let them...you believed them...you said it aloud. You allowed it to happen.. your dream now no more than... broken shards... broken pieces. You can't put it back... you can't even do what you once loved... when you do, you're reminded of it. Clasp the shards tighter, cutting deeper. You shouldn't have believed them..... how could you... how could you do that?
I lived through that nightmare... that class... I took... writting... was my one thing I thought I did ok at. To have it be seen as garbage. Everything else... seemed always to be never right. Never good enough. Then to be have that said of it. I could deal with the things that people said of me outside of my writting... the insults... and... all the other stuff done to me. I could handle that as long as I had my dream... my writting. Then... to watch it shatter too. I can't think about this anymore... I just... I just... can't. *crying... runs out of room*
< Message edited by cries-within -- 4/19/2007 9:52:54 PM >
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/20/2007 1:13:50 AM
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techne
Posts: 562
Joined: 4/12/2005
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or, to put it another way:
there's a difference between 'expressing yourself' (which is really just writing - or whatever - as therapy) and communicating something.
just a thought...
_____________________________
And when people cease to believe that there is good and evil
Only beauty will call to them and save them
So that they still know how to say: this is true and that is false.
One more day by Czeslaw Milosz
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/20/2007 12:00:15 PM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
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Aha.... see you didn't catch that part... that was the point I questioned my ability to write anything at all. God gives you abilities you discover them... inspiratiion... and such with that at times. Lighting bolt... hitting sand. You discover the sculpture.. your ability. I questioned my abilities... if it was something I could really do... and so I was "disabled" in my writting... because the dream... of what I thought I could do was like crushed.
What more can I say as to what you said Elena... That's what happened. Yes its a gift... an ability that I have.... it may not be perfected... but... see. That's just it is a part of who I am... my "gift" same as the stuff I write are a part of me... or were. Continually.... a part of me... is crying out with whatever stuff is going on... or stuff I'm unaware of... to God. I can't some how take away that ... its just there. When I'm writting... I allow that... to be apart of it. I'm not sure if you understand it or not. Things you write ... were a part of you. Some ways they still are... because they are thoughts in written form... coming from your experiences and ideas.
We are so many things yes... but we can't separate ourselves... from our need to cry out to God... usually in some form of worship. Most of the time... I'm not writting just for me... I'm either praying or expressing something going on. usually my thoughts are toward him.
LoL you know there's a funny thing... about going through something like that. While I still bare scars.... obvious when I deal with people critiquing me. Something happens... when you deal with something you thought was "broken" A short while back... I wrote this lyric.
For me I get the image of a music box that was completely destroyed.... a life a heart... just broken from whatever tradegy that happened in the world. Then God taking it and making it new again... and now it works.
Restored
Tears they fall…….
Heart ripped open
See the shattered pieces
Take the broken
Now is more than memory
Of what it used to be
Chorus
You take the melody
From my heart and put it to my lips
You take the cries
Trapped deep inside and put it to my lips
You give voice to what I could not understand
And put it to my lips
Sorrow anger, fears
Threaten to grip a heart so dear
Lord what does it matter
As long as you are near
There is nothing on earth that I need to fear
Chorus
You set free those trapped in bondage
Take the shattered broken
Give voice to the silent cries now no words left unspoken
You alone, you alone take the swirling madness
Turn it to beauty
No more are they pieces they are one
Chorus
Ending
This is what you’ve done for me
And I’m in awe of you
This is what you’ve done for me
I cry my thank you
This is what you’ve done for me
I’ll tell others and pray they see who you are
That they find you, find you
Lyric written for my Savior, written down by his servant Julie Campbell
I hope you get it now.. no I'm not just a writter... or a girl.. a student... daughter all those things I "am." We're a lot of things... somethings you can't separate... one from the other. It is part of who I am... not writer... but worshiper... and I just happen to express it alot through writting songs.. and poems... and then life itself.
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/20/2007 7:58:15 PM
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Elena1030
Posts: 545
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: Music City, USA
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quote:
Aha.... see you didn't catch that part... that was the point I questioned my ability to write anything at all. God gives you abilities you discover them... inspiratiion... and such with that at times. Lighting bolt... hitting sand. You discover the sculpture.. your ability. I questioned my abilities... if it was something I could really do... and so I was "disabled" in my writting... because the dream... of what I thought I could do was like crushed.
I got that. I did.
Beautiful example, by the way. 
And I see how much you identify with that sculpture. That sculpture isn't just your writing ability—that sculpture is YOU.
quote:
What more can I say as to what you said, Elena? That's what happened. Yes its a gift... an ability that I have.... it may not be perfected...
The innate ability/potential doesn't need to be perfected. It's the skill of using that ability that needs to be honed. We call that, honing your craft.
quote:
That's just it. It is is a part of who I am... my "gift." Same as the stuff I write are a part of me... or were. Continually.... a part of me... is crying out with whatever stuff is going on... or stuff I'm unaware of... to God. I can't some how take away that ... its just there. When I'm writting... I allow that... to be apart of it. I'm not sure if you understand it or not. Things you write ... were a part of you. Some ways they still are... because they are thoughts in written form... coming from your experiences and ideas.
Yes, my poems are still "in" me...like the way memories are. But the ones I have shared with others, have a life of their own too. If I saw them as being inseparable from me, then I couldn't bear to have them criticized. My poems are separate from me, even as they have a presence in me.
quote:
We are so many things yes... but we can't separate ourselves... from our need to cry out to God... usually in some form of worship. Most of the time... I'm not writting just for me... I'm either praying or expressing something going on. usually my thoughts are toward him.
If I write a poem that is a crying-out to God, at some point, that poem because a separate thing from the initial crying-out. That initial crying-out, be it in prose form or poetry, is more of a prayer/journal entry in my mind...not a finished poem, necessarily.
Julie,
I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say.
No human can take away my ability to write; my artistic sense; my intellect to understand words and to learn grammar, spelling, and punctuation; and so on. Only God can take away those abilities. The aging of the body or disease could affect my ability to write... not just to physically pick up the pen or to type on a keyboard... but my brain functions.
So I've never questioned my ability. Well, at least, I don't remember a time when I questioned it. (Being academically gifted, I never questioned my intellect either.)
I do often question how that ability has performed. I question what I have written---not the inspiration behind it or the feelings or experiences---but the way I have expressed and communicated what my original artistic vision was trying to express.
I don't see the act of writing as a spontaneous gift of the Spirit. I do see inspiration---the impetus to write, the idea of what to write about---that way.
It's like throwing clay pottery: The potter gets an idea for a pot. That idea can come from God or from himself. It is up to the potter to form the clay, fire it in the kiln, and glaze the pot. The idea could be the same, but the execution each time is up to the potter. The first pot might end up being not what the potter envisioned. And if the clay is still wet, he can throw it again. The second time, the result is a little different... it's not the same exact pot, but if he is trying to "clay out" the same idea then the pot might look similar to the first one but better, in the potter's view. Or perhaps as the potter works, his idea changes.
I do believe that as I work on a poem, God is guiding me. When I write down the first draft... When I revise... When I consider if it's finished or not. And my work, when it's dedicated to Him, is a way I worship Him. Of course, not every writing session is overtly a worship time. I'm not always down on my knees or falling on my face before Him. And my poetry is not borne of those really emotional times, as much as it used to be.
What I'm saying is that you are "married" so closely to your ideas and your poems and lyrics, if someone criticize them, you leap to the conclusion that the person is attacking your writing ability. And unless the person specifically says, "You stink. You can't write," then that's not what he's saying when he is offering a critique of your poem.
Make sense?
You need at some point to be able to let your poems go and be their own creatures... You still own your feelings and ideas... but your poems are no longer unassailable then. You know?
Your poems need to be not so much your darlings, your children. You can still cherish them. But if you overprotect them, you'll never be willing to go back and revise them.
Writing is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration.
_____________________________
"We're not odd, we're just over-expressive."—Helen in Howard's End
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/23/2007 7:14:32 PM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
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I have been checking in here periodically. So I'm not completely gone :) Anyways feel free to post.
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/25/2007 1:55:41 AM
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setmefree
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Your poem is so powerful that i feel like i can feel what you're feeling.. you've really got talent!!!! Really
great poem It's really cool how people can respond with poems. i mean, why don't we start a thread by replying only in poems just like they do. i mean, i write in poems what i'm going through and you reply in poems. that's so inspiring...
< Message edited by setmefree -- 4/27/2007 1:28:38 AM >
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/27/2007 12:48:01 PM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
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Why don't you start one then... on here?
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 4/29/2007 4:39:42 PM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
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Suddenly I'm invisible...
LOL now that I"m used to...
lonely echoes of my own words
bouncing back to me
people come in
but not leaving a post
This ... know it well
alone... no one to answer
yet wishing someone would
no one seems too
this is your existance
in a lonely world
crying out for someone to see you
hear you
they just walk on by
they just walk on by
say what you want... say something...
idk.. I don't care... at the moment
just wish someone would post...
< Message edited by cries-within -- 4/30/2007 10:11:53 PM >
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 5/1/2007 2:28:34 PM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
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NO way out for me now....
I stare at my grades...
letters of failure staring back at me
No way out for me
You don't care...
It doesn't matter
all I am is some stupid student
who can't write worth anything
all you do is just look the other way
all you do is go about your merry business
I'm going to fail... I'm doomed
You don't even care
if teachers really cared about everyone of their students
I guess they couldn't why would they
I don't think he even cares one bit
whether I pass or fail
I'm just a stupid student
another one to try and take your class
another one who's going to fail
it doesn't matter
No way out now
no hope now... for me
I'm doomed... that's just the way it is
I failed the class
There's a first time for everything
I guess its just something I'll learn to face
for now... I'll quietly go about my business
as you go about yours
cutting me down... giving me what I deserve
with no mercy none what so ever... at least to me
So... I'll try to suck it in....
stand with my eyes open
looking you in the eye
as you pull the trigger
and the failure is complete
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 5/1/2007 2:35:24 PM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
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Just venting about english class... got my last essay grade back today another F. (LOL BIG Surprise) LOL I guess this is what I get for thinking I could do well in an online class in English. I guess I was wrong. You don't need me to tell you this I bet. You already knew.
Neways... I don't care anymore... I'm going to fail... I know it. What gets me is my online teacher, doesn't even care... (at least that's what I think)! Neways... I'm beginning to wonder if anyone ever reads this anymore, or if they just gave up on it. It was a stupid idea anyways. LOL I might as well e-mail my advisor see about getting my english class changed for next year. I'll be taking it again.
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 5/2/2007 8:14:24 PM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
Status: offline
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I didn't fail... I came so close to it though. I got a D for a final grade. LoL my folks... won't be to pleased with that. I know they'll be partly shocked... but it happened and its over with now. I can't do anything about it.
Its over now
please don't shout at me
its over now
I can't change it
yes I got a D
yes I failed on three papers
What more can I say
I didn't try hard enough
my grammar skills
well... they stink obviously
my mechanics skills
well ... they stink too
horrible truth as it is
it happened...
horrible realty as it is
yes it happened...
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RE: Poetry/lyric corner... and other stuff-You can post... - 5/8/2007 11:12:00 PM
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cries-within
Posts: 160
Joined: 4/9/2007
Status: offline
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alone...
echoes of my thoughts
they keep me company
i look around
see no one here
alone....
no one to comfort
no one to open up to
say what i long to say
just a whiney girl
just a selfish little kid
so what if I wish to have a companion
a friend to talk too
share thoughts
ideas, simply have fun
enjoy life... with at times
i don't have that
family yes...
acquaintences,friends... (of some sort)
no close ones...
not in a long time
i guess I'm just a lonely fool
it doesn't matter
this is life... my life anyway
and this thread...
doesn't matter to anyone
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LOL Too Much stuff and not enough time 