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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2007 8:49:30 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4099
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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I have seen all this posting about genetic reasons for certain sinful behaviors. Iniquity is the word used in the Bible for transgenerational sinful habits and effects. I have NOT seen anyone suggesting that the more obvious (but not scientifically provable) reason being that demonic influences can be passed on just as much as genetics are.
I would submit that any and all overtly sinful behaviors can (not must) have a demonic element (and I am not saying anyone is "possessed," so don't go to that debate). Hebrews 12 mentions sins that easliy beset us. We all have certain weak areas for what ever reason. We all are fallen in many ways, but being restored back to God's original intent. That means there may still be areas of incomplete restoration in any of us, perhaps LARGE areas. I have heard that refered to as the unredeemed heart of a believer, an unrenewed mind, etc. The concept IS biblical.
Unless we can properly discern the cause of someone's missing the mark, we will not be able to assist them in walking free from it. Just saying something is sin and not giving them the assistance to help them out of it is exactly what James was talking about:
Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
Jam 2:16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
Jam 2:17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2007 10:05:30 AM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
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quote:
ORIGINAL: maidalyssa
I dont want to go too far off topic, so i'll keep this short, Alcoholics are ALWAYS Alcoholics, even after they sober up for the rest of their lives they can never touch alcohol again or else they'll relapse.
No, this is the lie pushed on people that fits inperfectly with the victim mentality promoted by society at large and people who make their living off people with problems. How are people supposed to be better when they are told that even after they quit they are always goingto be sick? You are an alocholic as long as you are addicted to alcohol. Once you no longer are addicted you have no problem unless you pick it up again. It's almost like saying that since you had a cold once, but no longer do, you are always suffering from a cold. And, since people are intent on hyping this as a disease, the analogy would fit.
quote:
I dont know why the same isnt true for a recovering drug addict or a recovering crossdresser, or is it true for these as well?
(its an honest question)
Once you have been delivered from a thing, be it drugs or whatever, you are delivered from it and it should cease to be something that you are defined by or that defines you as a person or a child of God. People always have the choice to take up a certain behavior again. Then and only then should anything having to do with that be a part of that person.
All this about being "addicted" to whatever comes down the road does othing but remove fault, personal responsibility, and choice from people. We all have choices. Some are easy to make, others hard. Regardless of the ease of difficulty of those decisions Christ will walk with us and deliver us.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2007 10:53:53 AM
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accntable
Posts: 52
Joined: 6/3/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
quote:
ORIGINAL: maidalyssa
I dont want to go too far off topic, so i'll keep this short, Alcoholics are ALWAYS Alcoholics, even after they sober up for the rest of their lives they can never touch alcohol again or else they'll relapse.
No, this is the lie pushed on people that fits inperfectly with the victim mentality promoted by society at large and people who make their living off people with problems. How are people supposed to be better when they are told that even after they quit they are always goingto be sick? You are an alocholic as long as you are addicted to alcohol. Once you no longer are addicted you have no problem unless you pick it up again. It's almost like saying that since you had a cold once, but no longer do, you are always suffering from a cold. And, since people are intent on hyping this as a disease, the analogy would fit.
quote:
I dont know why the same isnt true for a recovering drug addict or a recovering crossdresser, or is it true for these as well?
(its an honest question)
Once you have been delivered from a thing, be it drugs or whatever, you are delivered from it and it should cease to be something that you are defined by or that defines you as a person or a child of God. People always have the choice to take up a certain behavior again. Then and only then should anything having to do with that be a part of that person.
All this about being "addicted" to whatever comes down the road does othing but remove fault, personal responsibility, and choice from people. We all have choices. Some are easy to make, others hard. Regardless of the ease of difficulty of those decisions Christ will walk with us and deliver us.
Amen, you make some great points! As Christians it's time we quit using the world's excuses for sin or attraction to sin. God makes a way not only for us to overcome our addictions, but for us to hate the very things we once loved.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2007 3:02:33 PM
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amyk
Posts: 430
Joined: 5/9/2005
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quote:
How about the person who is left handed? Not too many years ago schools used to force them to use the right hand. I am sure man y of these children prayed that God would make them dright handed. You know, they are still left handed.
While I don't advocate making children use their right hand if they are wired to use their left hand more naturally, IF it were a sin to use their left hand, then the fact that they CAN be trained to use their right hand proves that people can change, even when their brain is "wired" for one thing. And the same is true for switching from right hand to left hand, e.g., if the right hand is injured. I'm not saying it is easy, no - it is hard work, but it IS possible to change. The big question, then, still is: Is it sin to be crossdressing? If one is completely convinced it is not sinful, then he/she has no reason to try to NOT do it. I also look at it like the sin of gluttony. I may feel a "need" to eat an entire box of chocolates, but if it is sinful, then I have to suppress that "need." That leads to another question: What does one consider to be a "need"? Are we saying that one cannot survive without crossdressing? If a crossdresser is suppressed from doing that for a certain length of time, are we saying that he/she will be in a severe state of depression, go insane, or what?
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2007 4:14:27 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5659
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: amyk
While I don't advocate making children use their right hand if they are wired to use their left hand more naturally, IF it were a sin to use their left hand, then the fact that they CAN be trained to use their right hand proves that people can change, even when their brain is "wired" for one thing. And the same is true for switching from right hand to left hand, e.g., if the right hand is injured. I'm not saying it is easy, no - it is hard work, but it IS possible to change. The big question, then, still is: Is it sin to be crossdressing? If one is completely convinced it is not sinful, then he/she has no reason to try to NOT do it. I also look at it like the sin of gluttony. I may feel a "need" to eat an entire box of chocolates, but if it is sinful, then I have to suppress that "need." That leads to another question: What does one consider to be a "need"? Are we saying that one cannot survive without crossdressing? If a crossdresser is suppressed from doing that for a certain length of time, are we saying that he/she will be in a severe state of depression, go insane, or what?
Good post.
I, for a fundamentalist evangelical Pastor have a little differentt take than most ministers do.
I agree with the pro-homosexual gay lesbian cross dressing etc. crowd that they were born that way.
They were born with a sin nature just like everyone else and that is why they as well as everyone else needs to be reborn.
One persons sin of choice may be lying, or fornicating, or gossip or whatever, a homosexuals sin of choice of sin is homosexuality activity or cross dressing or whatever.
Being reborn will fix the sin nature that we all were born with and the "Old man" will be a thing of the past. Praise God.
(2Co 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Thanks
RC
edited for clarity
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2007 4:22:45 PM
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amyk
Posts: 430
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I agree that it is highly possible that people are "born that way" - just like heterosexuals are "born that way" - but, and I know you agree, R.C., that does not mean we all have to act on our urges. It is possible, although there will be challenges, to live a celibate life as a heterosexual, if the Lord does not give you a spouse. But trying to do it on one's own strength instead of being controlled by the Spirit is a recipe for failure.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2007 4:26:55 PM
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amyk
Posts: 430
Joined: 5/9/2005
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One other issue about crossdressing - even IF one believes it is permissible in God's sight, does not mean they should do it. If one thinks it is permissible, it still may not be beneficial and may cause another believer to stumble. If it makes other believers stumble (even if the crossdresser therefore thinks those other believers are the weaker brothers), then they should not do it.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2007 7:24:39 PM
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N-E-W-S
Posts: 25
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BTW, I do believe that God can actually "deliver" you from a sin or stronghold, that doesn't mean you should go back to it though.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/10/2007 8:28:14 PM
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N-E-W-S
Posts: 25
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: N-E-W-S
quote:
No, this is the lie pushed on people that fits inperfectly with the victim mentality promoted by society at large and people who make their living off people with problems. How are people supposed to be better when they are told that even after they quit they are always goingto be sick? You are an alocholic as long as you are addicted to alcohol. Once you no longer are addicted you have no problem unless you pick it up again.It's almost like saying that since you had a cold once, but no longer do, you are always suffering from a cold. And, since people are intent on hyping this as a disease, the analogy would fit
This is an apples and oranges comparison. I do not want to be off-topic so I will just leave it at that.
I misunderstood this statement in bold and just want to say that I am in complete agreement with it.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/11/2007 2:46:35 AM
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maidalyssa
Posts: 26
Joined: 6/26/2007
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so you're basically saying its ok for a dry alcoholic to have a beer or wine every once in a while as long as it doesnt cause a problem for them.
I'm saying one drink would cause a huge problem for them, its NEVER going to be ok for them to take even one drink EVER because they would quickly fall back into the rountine of drinking in excess because they had a prior problem with alcoholism which was and is never 100% fully "cured" at all.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
No, this is the lie pushed on people that fits inperfectly with the victim mentality promoted by society at large and people who make their living off people with problems. How are people supposed to be better when they are told that even after they quit they are always goingto be sick? You are an alocholic as long as you are addicted to alcohol. Once you no longer are addicted you have no problem unless you pick it up again. It's almost like saying that since you had a cold once, but no longer do, you are always suffering from a cold. And, since people are intent on hyping this as a disease, the analogy would fit.
they might not be "defined" by alcoholism after they are clean and sober, but a recovering dry alcoholic has to admit their fight against the bottle is endless. An admitted dry alcoholic is always going to be a "recovering alcoholic, with [X] years sober", my point is he might be "free" but he is never really going to be 100% fully "cured" is he? He'll never totally be able to win the victory over the bottle because his fight is endless and ongoing.
If he was fully "cured" he would be able to drink socially and responsibly again and not get fall down sloppy drunk, which for a recovering alcoholic in any stage is impossible.
_____________________________
"If it aint broken... fix it anyway"
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/11/2007 9:10:51 AM
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LaurainAL
Posts: 1266
Joined: 8/13/2005
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quote:
An admitted dry alcoholic is always going to be a "recovering alcoholic, with [X] years sober", my point is he might be "free" but he is never really going to be 100% fully "cured" is he? He'll never totally be able to win the victory over the bottle because his fight is endless and ongoing.
None of us are going to be completely without sin until we are in heaven.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/11/2007 9:53:14 AM
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Kath
Posts: 17142
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: offline
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We're getting off topic here
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/11/2007 10:29:05 AM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2369
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: maidalyssa
so you're basically saying its ok for a dry alcoholic to have a beer or wine every once in a while as long as it doesnt cause a problem for them.
I'm saying one drink would cause a huge problem for them, its NEVER going to be ok for them to take even one drink EVER because they would quickly fall back into the rountine of drinking in excess because they had a prior problem with alcoholism which was and is never 100% fully "cured" at all.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
No, this is the lie pushed on people that fits inperfectly with the victim mentality promoted by society at large and people who make their living off people with problems. How are people supposed to be better when they are told that even after they quit they are always goingto be sick? You are an alocholic as long as you are addicted to alcohol. Once you no longer are addicted you have no problem unless you pick it up again. It's almost like saying that since you had a cold once, but no longer do, you are always suffering from a cold. And, since people are intent on hyping this as a disease, the analogy would fit.
they might not be "defined" by alcoholism after they are clean and sober, but a recovering dry alcoholic has to admit their fight against the bottle is endless. An admitted dry alcoholic is always going to be a "recovering alcoholic, with [X] years sober", my point is he might be "free" but he is never really going to be 100% fully "cured" is he? He'll never totally be able to win the victory over the bottle because his fight is endless and ongoing.
If he was fully "cured" he would be able to drink socially and responsibly again and not get fall down sloppy drunk, which for a recovering alcoholic in any stage is impossible.
I know this is off topic, but I just had to respond to this and say I disagree.
Whom the Son has set free is free indeed!
My husband is a "dry alcoholic", sober for nearly 10 yrs.
We attended a wedding of his close friend last Saturday.
Rick had one drink as a toast with his friend, and that was all.
He did not want another drink, he did not watch others drink, he had no desire for a drink.
When you are released from an area of bondage, it no longer has control over you, you control it.
_____________________________
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or it's gone
and gone for a long, long time."
Ronald Reagan
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/11/2007 3:06:17 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: maidalyssa
so you're basically saying its ok for a dry alcoholic to have a beer or wine every once in a while as long as it doesnt cause a problem for them.
I'm saying one drink would cause a huge problem for them, its NEVER going to be ok for them to take even one drink EVER because they would quickly fall back into the rountine of drinking in excess because they had a prior problem with alcoholism which was and is never 100% fully "cured" at all.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
No, this is the lie pushed on people that fits inperfectly with the victim mentality promoted by society at large and people who make their living off people with problems. How are people supposed to be better when they are told that even after they quit they are always goingto be sick? You are an alocholic as long as you are addicted to alcohol. Once you no longer are addicted you have no problem unless you pick it up again. It's almost like saying that since you had a cold once, but no longer do, you are always suffering from a cold. And, since people are intent on hyping this as a disease, the analogy would fit.
they might not be "defined" by alcoholism after they are clean and sober, but a recovering dry alcoholic has to admit their fight against the bottle is endless. An admitted dry alcoholic is always going to be a "recovering alcoholic, with [X] years sober", my point is he might be "free" but he is never really going to be 100% fully "cured" is he? He'll never totally be able to win the victory over the bottle because his fight is endless and ongoing.
If he was fully "cured" he would be able to drink socially and responsibly again and not get fall down sloppy drunk, which for a recovering alcoholic in any stage is impossible.
For some yes, for some no. I choose to believe that the same God that created matter from nothing can deliver, giving us freedom to not be plagued by our past actions.
I'm sorry you do not think your god can cure people. I do not know what god you serve, but I will be glad to tell you about mine.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/11/2007 5:52:39 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17142
Joined: 2/28/2005
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This thread is not about alcoholism. The point of Shane's post was deliverance, not alcohol. That was just an example.
Please do not discuss alcoholism in this thread. I know there are threads in this folder about it. If they are too old someone can start another one.
Sincerely
Kath
Volunteer Assistant Administrator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/14/2007 3:01:43 AM
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maidalyssa
Posts: 26
Joined: 6/26/2007
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the point of Bro-Shane's post was that
a) whatever facts from the American Medical Journal Rae Louise Wall publically puts up, Bro_Shane will always favor the Bible over Science, debunking and debunking and debunking science with religion.
b) labeling the trangender community as a "medical psychiatric disorder" wheres the religion in THAT statement Dr. Shane?
you cannot have it both ways.
I took the time to read up on transgenderism on Wikipedia.com. The findings were amazing... they debunked Bro_shane' Mental Disorder statement within the very first sentance.
Psychological techniques that attempt to alter gender identity to one considered appropriate for the person's assigned sex have typically been shown to be ineffective. Therefore, it is generally accepted that the only reasonable and effective course of treatment for transsexual people would be sex reassignment therapy.
Wikipedia.com/ psychological Treatment
The need for treatment is emphasized by the high rate of mental health problems, including depression, anxiety, and various addictions, as well as a higher suicide rate among untreated transsexual people than in the general population. Many of these problems, in the majority of cases, disappear or decrease significantly after a change of gender role and/or physical characteristics.
Many transgender and transsexual activists, and many caregivers, point out that these problems usually are not related to the gender identity issues themselves, but to problems that arise from dealing with those issues and social problems related to them. Also, many feel that those problems are much more likely to be diagnosed in transsexual people than in the general population, because transsexual people are usually required to visit a mental health professional to obtain approval for hormones and sex reassignment surgery. This exposes the transsexual community to a higher level of evaluation for mental health issues than the general populace.
A growing number of transsexual people are resenting or even refusing psychological treatment which is mandated by the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care, because they believe that gender dysphoria itself is untreatable by psychological means, and that they have no other problems that need treatment. Unfortunately, this can often cause them significant problems when they attempt to obtain physical treatment as health professionals expect such therapy to be occurring concurrently with physical treatment.
Therapists' records reveal that many transsexual people do not believe they need psychological counseling, but rather they will acquiesce to legal and medical expectations in order to gain rights which are thusly granted through the medical/psychological hierarchy. (Brown 103) Legal needs such as a change of sex on legal documents, and medical needs, such as sex reassignment surgery, are usually impossible to obtain without a doctor and/or therapist's approval. Because of this, many transsexual people feel coerced into affirming pre-ordained symptoms of self-loathing, impotence, and sexual-preference, in order to overcome simple legal and medical hurdles. (Brown 107) Transsexual people who do not submit to this medical hierarchy typically face the option of remaining invisible, with no legal rights and possibly with identification documents incongruent with gender presentation.
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comments?
_____________________________
"If it aint broken... fix it anyway"
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/14/2007 1:39:21 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3144
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
took the time to read up on transgenderism on Wikipedia.com.
Wikipedia, huh? Um, isn't that he site where anyone with an internet connection and a web browser can edit or add information? Not exactly trustworthy imho.
The real Truth is found only in the Word of God...yet some simply love their sin too much to take it in and accept what God is so willing to give. There is change, healing, freedom and new life available in Jesus Christ.
He who has ears let him hear:
"17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness." -Ephesians 4
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/14/2007 3:43:49 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: maidalyssa
the point of Bro-Shane's post was that
a) whatever facts from the American Medical Journal Rae Louise Wall publically puts up, Bro_Shane will always favor the Bible over Science, debunking and debunking and debunking science with religion.
Not true. I believe that science is good, and I believe that God is always right. The scientific undertaking should be tempered with the knowledge that it takes faith just as belief takes faith. My position is that whatever science seems to tell us God will always be right because He only does good. So, if there is a contradiction, I will believe God and continue to try to understand how we came to know what we think we know.
It's not about debunking anything. It's about truth.
quote:
b) labeling the trangender community as a "medical psychiatric disorder" wheres the religion in THAT statement Dr. Shane?
you cannot have it both ways.
Your second point stands only if I accept your first as true, which I don't and have explained why. I am not trying to have it both ways, I'm trying to have it the right way. There's where the "religion" is.
quote:
I took the time to read up on transgenderism on Wikipedia.com. The findings were amazing... they debunked Bro_shane' Mental Disorder statement within the very first sentance.
Psychological techniques that attempt to alter gender identity to one considered appropriate for the person's assigned sex have typically been shown to be ineffective. Therefore, it is generally accepted that the only reasonable and effective course of treatment for transsexual people would be sex reassignment therapy.
Friend, I feel sorry for you. I do not believe you are not smart enough to see the error in what you posted, I do believe you want to believe it so much that you have blinded yourself to it. This is the prevailing view, which may change at any moment. Science used to say worms were germinated from horse hair, and that black people were inherently inferior to white ones. This is not the scientific view now.
Science is not absolute, and any scientist worth his salt will tell you so. God is absolute, truth is absolute.
quote:
The need for treatment is emphasized by the high rate of mental health problems, including depression, anxiety, and various addictions, as well as a higher suicide rate among untreated transsexual people than in the general population. Many of these problems, in the majority of cases, disappear or decrease significantly after a change of gender role and/or physical characteristics.
So, do we allow gastric bypass for anorexic people because their physical reality does not match the mental picture of themselves? The error here is that they equate fulfilment of desire as cure without understanding that the desire is abberant and is a signal of a deeper problem. Name another condition where the medical community (other than homosexuality) allows the fulfilment of desire to override investigation of pathology.
comments?
Yes, it's bunk. By the same logic we can solve the problem of stealing by no longer making it a crime to steal.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/15/2007 1:14:11 AM
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maidalyssa
Posts: 26
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
quote:
ORIGINAL: maidalyssa
the point of Bro-Shane's post was that
a) whatever facts from the American Medical Journal Rae Louise Wall publically puts up, Bro_Shane will always favor the Bible over Science, debunking and debunking and debunking science with religion.
Not true. I believe that science is good, and I believe that God is always right. The scientific undertaking should be tempered with the knowledge that it takes faith just as belief takes faith. My position is that whatever science seems to tell us God will always be right because He only does good. So, if there is a contradiction, I will believe God and continue to try to understand how we came to know what we think we know.
if it isnt a true statement, cite me ONE example IN THIS THREAD where you agreed with anything Rae Louise Wall posted from the American Medical Journal.
quote:
It's not about debunking anything. It's about truth.
actually its about Religion vs Science.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
quote:
b) labeling the trangender community as a "medical psychiatric disorder" wheres the religion in THAT statement Dr. Shane?
you cannot have it both ways.
Your second point stands only if I accept your first as true, which I don't and have explained why. I am not trying to have it both ways, I'm trying to have it the right way. There's where the "religion" is.
I still state that you have dismissed ALL of the findings of the American Medical Journal that Rae Louise Wall posted. All you have said is "thats not 100% proof". For you, NOTHING is ever going to be "proof positive".
quote:
This is the prevailing view, which may change at any moment.
actually its been the prevailing view for years. And yes its the current prevailing view that transgenderism IS NOT a psyciatric disorder. However, its not your view because you believe it is a psyciatric disorder, when it is not.
quote:
Science used to say worms were germinated from horse hair, and that black people were inherently inferior to white ones. This is not the scientific view now.
the key phrase here is that they "USED TO SAY..."
The scientific community currently states that transgenderism IS NOT a psyciatric disorder.
You are correct that this may change eventually, but currently IT IS NOT CONSIDERED a psyciatric disorder by physicians.
you stated that transgenderism IS CURRENTLY considered a psyciatric disorder by physicians, and you are wrong. This is not the current view.
they might also eventually find life on other planets but currently we're alone here in the universe...
_____________________________
"If it aint broken... fix it anyway"
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/15/2007 1:25:50 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3144
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
I still state that you have dismissed ALL of the findings of the American Medical Journal that Rae Louise Wall posted.
And that is simply because the American Medical Journal is not our ultimate authority. You contiinue to overlook the fact that you are on a Christian site and what the American Medical Journal , Wikipedia or any secular Psychologists/Psychiatrists might say will never rule over what we hold as the foundation of our beliefs...the Bible.
I used to work in the Medical field and I can't count the number of times the American Medical Journal has published things the medical field thought you could take to the bank which, later down the road, were proven to be incorrect and even harmful to patients.
While papers, books and articles authored by humans often prove not to be worth the paper they are written on, the Word of God never lies, falters or fails.
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. -Hebrews 4
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/15/2007 2:30:05 PM
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accntable
Posts: 52
Joined: 6/3/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
I still state that you have dismissed ALL of the findings of the American Medical Journal that Rae Louise Wall posted.
And that is simply because the American Medical Journal is not our ultimate authority. You contiinue to overlook the fact that you are on a Christian site and what the American Medical Journal , Wikipedia or any secular Psychologists/Psychiatrists might say will never rule over what we hold as the foundation of our beliefs...the Bible.
I used to work in the Medical field and I can't count the number of times the American Medical Journal has published things the medical field thought you could take to the bank which, later down the road, were proven to be incorrect and even harmful to patients.
While papers, books and articles authored by humans often prove not to be worth the paper they are written on, the Word of God never lies, falters or fails.
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. -Hebrews 4
Amen and amen!
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/15/2007 4:23:36 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: maidalyssa
if it isnt a true statement, cite me ONE example IN THIS THREAD where you agreed with anything Rae Louise Wall posted from the American Medical Journal.
My statement being true has nothing to do with how it agrees with what RLW. What she posted is not the standard of truth and it is not absolute truth. My statement can be in direct opposition to hers and still be correct.
quote:
actually its about Religion vs Science.
The two are not mutually exclusive. And, even if we accept it for the sake of argument, that would put you onthe side of science against the God you say you belong to. Which is it? You can not serve two masters.
quote:
I still state that you have dismissed ALL of the findings of the American Medical Journal that Rae Louise Wall posted. All you have said is "thats not 100% proof". For you, NOTHING is ever going to be "proof positive".
Your comment infers that "100% proof positive" was included in those articles. It wasn't. Nothing was proven. There was an opposing view with the basis for the opposing view, but nothign that shows clear, unequivocal biological or pshysiological proof that this is not at best abberant behavior, at worst a psychiatric disorder.
Your "proof" exists on a sliding scale.
quote:
actually its been the prevailing view for years. And yes its the current prevailing view that transgenderism IS NOT a psyciatric disorder. However, its not your view because you believe it is a psyciatric disorder, when it is not.
I did not deny it is the popular view. However, truth is not decided by majority. You still insist on something for which you have no proof. Again, it used to be the popular view that blacks were inherently inferior to whites. Things change. God's word does not change.
quote:
the key phrase here is that they "USED TO SAY..."
The scientific community currently states that transgenderism IS NOT a psyciatric disorder.
You still don't get it do you? These were once held as undeniably true. Anyone who did not believe it was open to ridicule because it was so clearly true. They turned out to be false. Your view could fall from favor tomorrow, then where will you be?
quote:
You are correct that this may change eventually, but currently IT IS NOT CONSIDERED a psyciatric disorder by physicians.
you stated that transgenderism IS CURRENTLY considered a psyciatric disorder by physicians, and you are wrong. This is not the current view.
Not all physicians hold the same view. Also, by saying that something is true only when majority agrees it is for the time that they agree, you deny the reality of any kind of absolute truth. The end result of the is the denial of God since God is absolute.
I mean you no offense, but I get the idea that either you want to continue doing what you do so badly that you will justify it in any way, or that you really do not know what you believe. I do not mean to insult you, honestly I don't, but the arguments you are giving make no sense.
quote:
they might also eventually find life on other planets but currently we're alone here in the universe...
And this means what, exactly? Nothing.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/16/2007 9:59:34 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7691
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
maidalyssa,
An email has been sent to your account. If you did not receive it please contact community@salemwebnetwork.com
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
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_____________________________
Fritz
Senior Manager of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Want to see my latest online project? Check out http://budurl.com/CWonFacebook
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