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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/18/2006 3:37:06 AM
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CCCdnt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jmeert
quote:
I am sure you know that I disagree with you here and believe that there is evidence that does support that a global flood happened and that it can be shown that history can show to support this as well.
Show me the evidence. I've seen ZILCH, zero nada. In fact the geologic record speaks unequivocally on the subject and that is that there is no evidence for such an event. This was noted by YEC'ists many years ago, the evidence has only become airtight against a global flood since then. The only way to argue for a global flood is to say it was miraculous and left no trace.
Any thing I show you will be interpretations of the evidence from YEC's that you have probably already seen and rejected. By the way, I do believe that the global flood was miraculous...God bringing the animals to Noah, God instructing him to build an ark, God causing the Flood to take place when it did, etc. However, I do not necessarily believe that God supernaturally made the water disappear after the Flood was over and then made all evidence of it disappear (there are versus in the Bible that seem to suggest how God caused the waters to recede). As for signs that it happened...the many fossils that are found is one sign. A world-wide flood would surely leave a lot of dead animals in its wake that would be rapidly buried and hence fossilized. (I know you probably see the fossil record as evidence of millions of years of animals dying, being buried, etc.)
As for your comments about Scripture...I see they have already been answered.
I am growing curious as to your purpose in debating this and other issues like it. I am not sure of your stance on Scripture and what you consider yourself (Christian, agnostic, etc.). I understand that you do not accept the YEC position and am curious just what type of world-view you hold to - theistic evolution, naturalistic (materialistic) evolution, some type of OEC. I used to participate in the Science folder more than I do now. However, I found that usually discussions here did not go anywhere. People posting here usually have already made up there minds and many times are only posting to "set a trap" as it were, waiting for answers to their questions that they know are probably already coming just so they can try to knock them down. What I mainly have recently been doing now is looking for people that post with questions that are trying to find out information they do not know or fully understand because they are looking for the correct world-view, looking for the best way to interpret the Bible, etc. I also look for when the YEC view is misrepresented by those that do not accept it.
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/18/2006 8:25:11 AM
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scutus
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quote:
As for signs that it happened...the many fossils that are found is one sign. A world-wide flood would surely leave a lot of dead animals in its wake that would be rapidly buried and hence fossilized. Strange how not one human body ended up in Cretaceous strata.
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/18/2006 9:58:18 AM
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shernren
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quote:
ORIGINAL: scutus
quote:
As for signs that it happened...the many fossils that are found is one sign. A world-wide flood would surely leave a lot of dead animals in its wake that would be rapidly buried and hence fossilized. Strange how not one human body ended up in Cretaceous strata.
Or dolphins with sharks,
or Bronto with megatherium,
or chickens with Compsognathus ...
but let's get back to *cough*meteors!*cough*
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... in discussions of physical problems we ought to begin not from the authority of scriptural passages but from sensory experiences and necessary demonstrations ...
Galileo, 1615
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/18/2006 7:08:12 PM
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scutus
Posts: 356
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From: Sydney, Australia
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unclemonkey, where are you?
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/19/2006 7:33:12 AM
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USincognito
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CCCdnt
As for signs that it happened...the many fossils that are found is one sign. A world-wide flood would surely leave a lot of dead animals in its wake that would be rapidly buried and hence fossilized. (I know you probably see the fossil record as evidence of millions of years of animals dying, being buried, etc.)
Do Creationists even stop and think about what they're saying when they make this rediculous assertion? Do they even stop for one moment and consider that all those plants and animals would be living at the same time so the Earth must have been covered with wall to wall (er... pillar to pillar?) with plants and animals living on top of each other so there would have been enough to drown and fill the entire geological column with their fossils? I guess that's the beauty of ad hoc assertions, you don't need to sweat or even think about the details.
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/20/2006 1:16:33 AM
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BVZ
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Ok. I'll do the devils advocate thingy:
"Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep..."
This sounds like a good description of what the earth would look like after all the disasters described in this thread.
Maybe all the bad stuff happened, and THEN God kick started life and evolution on Earth AFTERWARDS.
(This requires you not to read the bible literally, but seriously, this is ALL I could come up with that could POSSIBLY work.)
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/20/2006 10:02:01 AM
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shernren
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quote:
ORIGINAL: scutus
That doesn't make sense.
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
ב2Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.
There's no gap between the first two lines. Don't YECs hold the Bible as scientifically true? Obviously it can't be historically correct if it forgot to mention:
2.5 And God chuck a hissy fit and threw lots of asteroids upon the newly created earth.
It has to be post-Fall. It can't have been pre-Fall because it was all 'very good'.
Then again, the "perfect" Garden of Eden apparently had a Tree of Doom complete with complimentary reptilian marketer. Who's to say what God's idea of "very good" is? :P
_____________________________
... in discussions of physical problems we ought to begin not from the authority of scriptural passages but from sensory experiences and necessary demonstrations ...
Galileo, 1615
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/20/2006 5:09:55 PM
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Plebe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CCCdnt
Any thing I show you will be interpretations of the evidence from YEC's that you have probably already seen and rejected.
Have you ever thought about this? Might it be that it is rejected because their claims run contrary to evidence?
quote:
By the way, I do believe that the global flood was miraculous...God bringing the animals to Noah, God instructing him to build an ark, God causing the Flood to take place when it did, etc. However, I do not necessarily believe that God supernaturally made the water disappear after the Flood was over and then made all evidence of it disappear (there are versus in the Bible that seem to suggest how God caused the waters to recede).
Then explain why we see hundreds of very big meteor impacts, any one of which would lead to a large extinction event.
quote:
As for signs that it happened...the many fossils that are found is one sign. A world-wide flood would surely leave a lot of dead animals in its wake that would be rapidly buried and hence fossilized. (I know you probably see the fossil record as evidence of millions of years of animals dying, being buried, etc.)
There are too many fossils to be explained by a singular event, much less a young earth. For example, the Appalachians are made up of thousands of feet of dead marine invertebrates. The chalk in the cliffs at Dover are made up of hundreds of feet of tiny little single celled animals. These can not be explained by a flood, much less a 2,000 year history before a flood.
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/21/2006 5:40:59 PM
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shouldknowbetter
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Gen 1:10-11
And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.
NASB
I think many loose the scope of the Bible... We impose our definition on simple words and loose Gods meaning in the process.
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/21/2006 7:52:16 PM
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scutus
Posts: 356
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quote:
Gen 1:10-11
And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. And this is relevant to the OP...how?
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/21/2006 8:07:02 PM
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jmeert
Posts: 97
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quote:
Any thing I show you will be interpretations of the evidence from YEC's that you have probably already seen and rejected.
Actually, I've rejected the notion of a global flood based on two things (1) the lack of evidence for such an event in the geologic record and (2) the evidence against a global flood found throughout the geologic record.
quote:
By the way, I do believe that the global flood was miraculous..
It HAS to be because it came and went without any physical trace.
quote:
A world-wide flood would surely leave a lot of dead animals in its wake that would be rapidly buried and hence fossilized. (I know you probably see the fossil record as evidence of millions of years of animals dying, being buried, etc.)
So where do you place the start of the flood?
quote:
I am growing curious as to your purpose in debating this and other issues like it.
I am growing curious as to your purpose.
quote:
I used to participate in the Science folder more than I do now. However, I found that usually discussions here did not go anywhere.
Probably true.
quote:
People posting here usually have already made up there minds and many times are only posting to "set a trap" as it were,
Or maybe simply to make sure that trashy creation/ID politics does not permeate the internet masquerading as science.
quote:
I also look for when the YEC view is misrepresented by those that do not accept it.
I look to study things scientifically. There is no scientific evidence supporting the YE view. Do you have some to offer?
Cheers
Joe Meert
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/22/2006 7:24:04 PM
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shouldknowbetter
Posts: 350
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quote:
ORIGINAL: scutus
quote:
Gen 1:10-11
And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. And this is relevant to the OP...how?
Scope...... The Bible creation account does not start at the same beginning as most YEC's say it does... Hence, Young "Dry Land" Creationism....
All those meteor impacts and a multiude of other events happened before God created the dry land in the story recorded by the Hebrews. A story handed down through generations in verbal repeat stortelling and eventually recorded once they learned to write....
Scope....
The Bible is concerned with God and the story about mankind, His promises and thier problems. It doesn't talk about the whole earth only the area and events that are pertinant to the scope of the Bible which is God and His poeple.
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/23/2006 12:59:07 AM
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scutus
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Sorry, I mistook you for a creationist. So do you think the Earth is many billions of years old?
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/23/2006 3:22:13 AM
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eldora
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Still, this could explain the extinction of the dinosaurs.
quote:
ORIGINAL: scutus
quote:
Gen 1:10-11
And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. And this is relevant to the OP...how?
This is a Christian forum, dear, you're going to have to see Holy Scripture quotes every now and then that'll offend your athiest ears.
Maybe you can counter with some Darwin quotes.
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/23/2006 3:26:55 AM
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scutus
Posts: 356
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quote:
This is a Christian forum, dear, you're going to have to see Holy Scripture quotes every now and then that'll offend your athiest ears. Snarkiness makes my day! 
I thought shouldknowbetter was one of those creationists who think posting a quote from the Bible is enough to win an argument. I was wrong and I apologised.
quote:
Maybe you can counter with some Darwin quotes.
Er...why?
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Suo enim quisque studio maxime ducitur.
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/23/2006 3:30:07 AM
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eldora
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Honey, nobody was wanting to argue with you. I think it's great you have this interest in geology, but you are being led astray.
The meterorite strikes are interesting, yes. God Bless.
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/23/2006 3:31:17 AM
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scutus
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So, coming back to the OP. Meteorites, supervolcanoes and large basalt lava flows. How do young earth creationists explain these events within a short period of time? shouldknowbetter suggests that they all took place but the Bible didn't mention them because they happened before dry land was formed. Strange how all these meteorite craters are ON DRY LAND...even though the meteorites supposedly hit the Earth before land was even created.
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/26/2006 1:59:48 PM
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Gharlane_of_Eddore
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quote:
ORIGINAL: scutus
So, coming back to the OP. Meteorites, supervolcanoes and large basalt lava flows. How do young earth creationists explain these events within a short period of time? shouldknowbetter suggests that they all took place but the Bible didn't mention them because they happened before dry land was formed. Strange how all these meteorite craters are ON DRY LAND...even though the meteorites supposedly hit the Earth before land was even created.
Don't forget the evidence from SN1987A. The Earth/solar system is about 4.5 billion years old and the Universe is closer to 13 billion.
Here is another clincher:
http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/physics_astronomy/report-43246.html
http://deep.berkeley.edu/APS/
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/26/2006 6:32:39 PM
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shouldknowbetter
Posts: 350
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quote:
ORIGINAL: scutus
So, coming back to the OP. Meteorites, supervolcanoes and large basalt lava flows. How do young earth creationists explain these events within a short period of time? shouldknowbetter suggests that they all took place but the Bible didn't mention them because they happened before dry land was formed. Strange how all these meteorite craters are ON DRY LAND...even though the meteorites supposedly hit the Earth before land was even created.
Hey...That's just supposition.... But ask yourself why the Bible doesn't talk about North America? Could it be they didn't know it existed and conversly it wasn't important to the subject matter.
I think the meteorites/asteriod/comets hit where the evidence suggests... That wasn't where the Bible was talking about creating man.
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/26/2006 6:46:54 PM
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jmeert
Posts: 97
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From: me
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quote:
Hey...That's just supposition.... But ask yourself why the Bible doesn't talk about North America? Could it be they didn't know it existed and conversly it wasn't important to the subject matter.
God did not know about North America? There goes omniscence.
Cheers
Joe meert
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/26/2006 7:58:26 PM
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scutus
Posts: 356
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From: Sydney, Australia
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quote:
I think the meteorites/asteriod/comets hit where the evidence suggests... That wasn't where the Bible was talking about creating man. So then you must agree that those meteorite impacts happened a long, long time ago. Like the evidence suggests.
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/27/2006 9:26:38 AM
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bede
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shernren
quote:
ORIGINAL: scutus
That doesn't make sense.
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
á2Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.
There's no gap between the first two lines. Don't YECs hold the Bible as scientifically true? Obviously it can't be historically correct if it forgot to mention:
2.5 And God chuck a hissy fit and threw lots of asteroids upon the newly created earth.
It has to be post-Fall. It can't have been pre-Fall because it was all 'very good'.
Then again, the "perfect" Garden of Eden apparently had a Tree of Doom complete with complimentary reptilian marketer. Who's to say what God's idea of "very good" is? :P
Actually, Scutus, one of the leading YEC theories -- Runaway Subduction -- believes that the earth was created with a built-in self-destruct mechanism that went off 1650 years later, causing the flood. Another explains the large number of meteor impacts on the moon by saying the solar system passed through a debris field, which means that, again, the earth was created heading toward certain disaster. So it seems to me that YEC scientists have a very skewed idea of "very good."
Pax,
Bede
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/27/2006 10:31:26 AM
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Ps103
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/27/2006 2:37:00 PM
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CCCdnt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: scutus
quote:
As for signs that it happened...the many fossils that are found is one sign. A world-wide flood would surely leave a lot of dead animals in its wake that would be rapidly buried and hence fossilized. Strange how not one human body ended up in Cretaceous strata.
YEC does have an explanation for this...have you checked to see just what it is that YEC believe?
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RE: Meteorite Impacts - 11/27/2006 2:38:38 PM
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CCCdnt
Posts: 359
Joined: 3/10/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shernren
quote:
ORIGINAL: scutus
quote:
As for signs that it happened...the many fossils that are found is one sign. A world-wide flood would surely leave a lot of dead animals in its wake that would be rapidly buried and hence fossilized. Strange how not one human body ended up in Cretaceous strata.
Or dolphins with sharks,
or Bronto with megatherium,
or chickens with Compsognathus ...
Again, YEC does attempt to explain this. AiG and other YEC sites have articles that address this.
< Message edited by CCCdnt -- 11/27/2006 3:43:00 PM >
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