quote:

ORIGINAL: Justifiedbyfaith

Jer 44:18 But since4480, 227 we left off2308 to burn incense6999 to the queen4446 of heaven,8064 and to pour out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, we have wanted2637 all3605 things, and have been consumed8552 by the sword2719 and by the famine.7458
Jer 44:19 And when3588 we587 burned incense6999 to the queen4446 of heaven,8064 and poured out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, did we make6213 her cakes3561 to worship6087 her, and pour out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, without4480, 1107 our men?376
Jer 44:20 Then Jeremiah3414 said559 unto413 all3605 the people,5971 to5921 the men,1397 and to5921 the women,802 and to5921 all3605 the people5971 which had given him that answer,6030, (853), 1697 saying,559
Jer 44:21 (853) The incense7002 that834 ye burned6999 in the cities5892 of Judah,3063 and in the streets2351 of Jerusalem,3389 ye,859 and your fathers,1 your kings,4428 and your princes,8269 and the people5971 of the land,776 did not3808 the LORD3068 remember2142 them, and came5927 it not into5921 his mind?3820
Jer 44:22 So that the LORD3068 could3201 no3808 longer5750 bear,5375 because4480, 6440 of the evil7455 of your doings,4611 and because4480, 6440 of the abominations8441 which834 ye have committed;6213 therefore is1961 your land776 a desolation,2723 and an astonishment,8047 and a curse,7045 without4480, 369 an inhabitant,3427 as at this2088 day.3117
Jer 44:23 Because4480, 6440, 834 ye have burned incense,6999 and because834 ye have sinned2398 against the LORD,3068 and have not3808 obeyed8085 the voice6963 of the LORD,3068 nor3808 walked1980 in his law,8451 nor in his statutes,2708 nor in his testimonies;5715 therefore5921, 3651 this2063 evil7451 is happened unto7122 you, as at this2088 day.3117


I believe the practices of this Church is right out of Jeremiah. She is no different than the worship of the false idol back then who they called, "The Queen of Heaven." I see God will punish those who know right and do wrong in the last days. I see her in Rev 17.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gpaatfwc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justifiedbyfaith

Jer 44:18 But since4480, 227 we left off2308 to burn incense6999 to the queen4446 of heaven,8064 and to pour out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, we have wanted2637 all3605 things, and have been consumed8552 by the sword2719 and by the famine.7458
Jer 44:19 And when3588 we587 burned incense6999 to the queen4446 of heaven,8064 and poured out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, did we make6213 her cakes3561 to worship6087 her, and pour out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, without4480, 1107 our men?376
Jer 44:20 Then Jeremiah3414 said559 unto413 all3605 the people,5971 to5921 the men,1397 and to5921 the women,802 and to5921 all3605 the people5971 which had given him that answer,6030, (853), 1697 saying,559
Jer 44:21 (853) The incense7002 that834 ye burned6999 in the cities5892 of Judah,3063 and in the streets2351 of Jerusalem,3389 ye,859 and your fathers,1 your kings,4428 and your princes,8269 and the people5971 of the land,776 did not3808 the LORD3068 remember2142 them, and came5927 it not into5921 his mind?3820
Jer 44:22 So that the LORD3068 could3201 no3808 longer5750 bear,5375 because4480, 6440 of the evil7455 of your doings,4611 and because4480, 6440 of the abominations8441 which834 ye have committed;6213 therefore is1961 your land776 a desolation,2723 and an astonishment,8047 and a curse,7045 without4480, 369 an inhabitant,3427 as at this2088 day.3117
Jer 44:23 Because4480, 6440, 834 ye have burned incense,6999 and because834 ye have sinned2398 against the LORD,3068 and have not3808 obeyed8085 the voice6963 of the LORD,3068 nor3808 walked1980 in his law,8451 nor in his statutes,2708 nor in his testimonies;5715 therefore5921, 3651 this2063 evil7451 is happened unto7122 you, as at this2088 day.3117


I believe the practices of this Church is right out of Jeremiah. She is no different than the worship of the false idol back then who they called, "The Queen of Heaven." I see God will punish those who know right and do wrong in the last days. I see her in Rev 17.

Correct me if i'm wrong but is this in reference to the blessed Mother Mary and how Catholics look at her? If so, than i will address what you have presented to support your case.

First of all, you have quoted scripture and you done correctly. We're not to worship any other besides the One True God. But, if you pay attention to the details you will see that in NO WAY can those verse be applied to the blessed mother Mary. frist off, the quoted scripture says they worshipped her as a goddess. Now we don't worship Mary as divine in any sense therefore, this cannot be applied.

the Queenship of Mary refers to Mary’s royal dignity as Mother of the King of Kings, Jesus Christ.

Now there were many false God's that had the label of "Lord, or God". Does this mean that this lable is not to be used with the One True God? no. So therefore just because a title is given to a false figure does not mean that title is not authentic in regards to the authentic person it is applied to.

for ex: Jesus is God. Baal is not. Jesus is Lord. Ceasar is not.


If the above does not address the issue, i can reference you to a site that, if you're willing to read, will post on here

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justifiedbyfaith

quote:

ORIGINAL: gpaatfwc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justifiedbyfaith

Jer 44:18 But since4480, 227 we left off2308 to burn incense6999 to the queen4446 of heaven,8064 and to pour out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, we have wanted2637 all3605 things, and have been consumed8552 by the sword2719 and by the famine.7458
Jer 44:19 And when3588 we587 burned incense6999 to the queen4446 of heaven,8064 and poured out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, did we make6213 her cakes3561 to worship6087 her, and pour out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, without4480, 1107 our men?376
Jer 44:20 Then Jeremiah3414 said559 unto413 all3605 the people,5971 to5921 the men,1397 and to5921 the women,802 and to5921 all3605 the people5971 which had given him that answer,6030, (853), 1697 saying,559
Jer 44:21 (853) The incense7002 that834 ye burned6999 in the cities5892 of Judah,3063 and in the streets2351 of Jerusalem,3389 ye,859 and your fathers,1 your kings,4428 and your princes,8269 and the people5971 of the land,776 did not3808 the LORD3068 remember2142 them, and came5927 it not into5921 his mind?3820
Jer 44:22 So that the LORD3068 could3201 no3808 longer5750 bear,5375 because4480, 6440 of the evil7455 of your doings,4611 and because4480, 6440 of the abominations8441 which834 ye have committed;6213 therefore is1961 your land776 a desolation,2723 and an astonishment,8047 and a curse,7045 without4480, 369 an inhabitant,3427 as at this2088 day.3117
Jer 44:23 Because4480, 6440, 834 ye have burned incense,6999 and because834 ye have sinned2398 against the LORD,3068 and have not3808 obeyed8085 the voice6963 of the LORD,3068 nor3808 walked1980 in his law,8451 nor in his statutes,2708 nor in his testimonies;5715 therefore5921, 3651 this2063 evil7451 is happened unto7122 you, as at this2088 day.3117


I believe the practices of this Church is right out of Jeremiah. She is no different than the worship of the false idol back then who they called, "The Queen of Heaven." I see God will punish those who know right and do wrong in the last days. I see her in Rev 17.

Correct me if i'm wrong but is this in reference to the blessed Mother Mary and how Catholics look at her? If so, than i will address what you have presented to support your case.

First of all, you have quoted scripture and you done correctly. We're not to worship any other besides the One True God. But, if you pay attention to the details you will see that in NO WAY can those verse be applied to the blessed mother Mary. frist off, the quoted scripture says they worshipped her as a goddess. Now we don't worship Mary as divine in any sense therefore, this cannot be applied.

the Queenship of Mary refers to Mary’s royal dignity as Mother of the King of Kings, Jesus Christ.

Now there were many false God's that had the label of "Lord, or God". Does this mean that this lable is not to be used with the One True God? no. So therefore just because a title is given to a false figure does not mean that title is not authentic in regards to the authentic person it is applied to.

for ex: Jesus is God. Baal is not. Jesus is Lord. Ceasar is not.


If the above does not address the issue, i can reference you to a site that, if you're willing to read, will post on here

Thank you for your response gpaatfwc. I am refering to the similarities with this pagan worship as seen in Jeremiah and the Catholic Church today in general. There are similar requests made to the Mary (Of the Catholic Church) by catholics and she is also referenced by some within the church as (The Queen of heaven) as if she can hear or grant us favors. I do not wish to get off topic with this thread. I believe that those who know better and continue to worship her will answer in due time. I think the book of Revelation reflects also my viewpoint.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gpaatfwc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justifiedbyfaith

quote:

ORIGINAL: gpaatfwc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justifiedbyfaith

Jer 44:18 But since4480, 227 we left off2308 to burn incense6999 to the queen4446 of heaven,8064 and to pour out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, we have wanted2637 all3605 things, and have been consumed8552 by the sword2719 and by the famine.7458
Jer 44:19 And when3588 we587 burned incense6999 to the queen4446 of heaven,8064 and poured out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, did we make6213 her cakes3561 to worship6087 her, and pour out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, without4480, 1107 our men?376
Jer 44:20 Then Jeremiah3414 said559 unto413 all3605 the people,5971 to5921 the men,1397 and to5921 the women,802 and to5921 all3605 the people5971 which had given him that answer,6030, (853), 1697 saying,559
Jer 44:21 (853) The incense7002 that834 ye burned6999 in the cities5892 of Judah,3063 and in the streets2351 of Jerusalem,3389 ye,859 and your fathers,1 your kings,4428 and your princes,8269 and the people5971 of the land,776 did not3808 the LORD3068 remember2142 them, and came5927 it not into5921 his mind?3820
Jer 44:22 So that the LORD3068 could3201 no3808 longer5750 bear,5375 because4480, 6440 of the evil7455 of your doings,4611 and because4480, 6440 of the abominations8441 which834 ye have committed;6213 therefore is1961 your land776 a desolation,2723 and an astonishment,8047 and a curse,7045 without4480, 369 an inhabitant,3427 as at this2088 day.3117
Jer 44:23 Because4480, 6440, 834 ye have burned incense,6999 and because834 ye have sinned2398 against the LORD,3068 and have not3808 obeyed8085 the voice6963 of the LORD,3068 nor3808 walked1980 in his law,8451 nor in his statutes,2708 nor in his testimonies;5715 therefore5921, 3651 this2063 evil7451 is happened unto7122 you, as at this2088 day.3117


I believe the practices of this Church is right out of Jeremiah. She is no different than the worship of the false idol back then who they called, "The Queen of Heaven." I see God will punish those who know right and do wrong in the last days. I see her in Rev 17.

Correct me if i'm wrong but is this in reference to the blessed Mother Mary and how Catholics look at her? If so, than i will address what you have presented to support your case.

First of all, you have quoted scripture and you done correctly. We're not to worship any other besides the One True God. But, if you pay attention to the details you will see that in NO WAY can those verse be applied to the blessed mother Mary. frist off, the quoted scripture says they worshipped her as a goddess. Now we don't worship Mary as divine in any sense therefore, this cannot be applied.

the Queenship of Mary refers to Mary’s royal dignity as Mother of the King of Kings, Jesus Christ.

Now there were many false God's that had the label of "Lord, or God". Does this mean that this lable is not to be used with the One True God? no. So therefore just because a title is given to a false figure does not mean that title is not authentic in regards to the authentic person it is applied to.

for ex: Jesus is God. Baal is not. Jesus is Lord. Ceasar is not.


If the above does not address the issue, i can reference you to a site that, if you're willing to read, will post on here

Thank you for your response gpaatfwc. I am refering to the similarities with this pagan worship as seen in Jeremiah and the Catholic Church today in general. There are similar requests made to the Mary (Of the Catholic Church) by catholics and she is also referenced by some within the church as (The Queen of heaven) as if she can hear or grant us favors. I do not wish to get off topic with this thread. I believe that those who know better and continue to worship her will answer in due time. I think the book of Revelation reflects also my viewpoint.

You're correct. we are off topic for this thread. I will say this before leaving this thread. You're wrong on how Mary is looked upon in the Catholic Church. Don't assume what we (Catholics) believe.

at least look at the offical answer given and than scrutinze weighing the points shown to support such a doctrine.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheProfessor

Nope.

There has never been one like America.

Name one.

quote:

In fact, knowing what we do about the Great Whore's anti-Religious nature, the United States is the least likely of the great powers to be the Whore, being among the most religiously and socially conservative of the world's mighty nations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheProfessor

quote:

In fact, knowing what we do about the Great Whore's anti-Religious nature, the United States is the least likely of the great powers to be the Whore, being among the most religiously and socially conservative of the world's mighty nations.

Seriously? How many babies do we legally kill every day?

That's only one point. There is more.

And those other empires you mentioned don't fit the descriptions of Revelation 18.

Only America does.

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Seriously? How many babies do we legally kill every day?

quote:

After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”

quote:

And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

quote:

“Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’ Therefore her plagues will come in one day; death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.”

quote:

“The kings of the earth who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’”

quote:

“And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore: merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble; and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men. The fruit that your soul longed for has gone from you, and all the things which are rich and splendid have gone from you, and you shall find them no more at all. The merchants of these things, who became rich by her, will stand at a distance for fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls! For in one hour such great riches came to nothing.’”

quote:

“Every shipmaster, all who travel by ship, sailors, and as many as trade on the sea, stood at a distance and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What is like this great city?’ They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.’”

quote:

After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”

quote:

“Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’ Therefore her plagues will come in one day; death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.”

quote:

“And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore: merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble; and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men. The fruit that your soul longed for has gone from you, and all the things which are rich and splendid have gone from you, and you shall find them no more at all. The merchants of these things, who became rich by her, will stand at a distance for fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls! For in one hour such great riches came to nothing.’”

quote:

“Every shipmaster, all who travel by ship, sailors, and as many as trade on the sea, stood at a distance and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What is like this great city?’ They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.’”

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ben-T

And? Do you believe that the European Barbarians loved Rome, that the peoples of central asia were head over heels for the USSR?

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Even now we in America consume massive amounts of goods in China while many of us fear and hate the source of them, Red China. Maybe the Whore is China. This is again, simply unspecific.

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It is also completley impossible to judge whether it applies to America, because we cannot see the future.

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Yes, the US is a bigger consumer culture than any power that has come before it. But before the US, Britain was. And before Britain, Rome was. And back into history. What reason is there to believe that the next power to arise will not be a bigger one?

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Extremely unique to the US.

Sure humans are sinful everywhere, but the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of the luxury of the US.

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Look no farther than the US.

There is no precedent for her in all of history - the localized power of
the ancient empires, though there was just that, localized - not global - and the colonization of the Europeans in no way compares to the position of the US.

You can compare all you like but the US has military on every continent - a feat never before achieved in the history of the world.

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This is so obvious, it needs no further explanation.

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The merchants of the sea weren't made rich off Rome. And the USSR didn't exactly make the merchants of the sea rich either....besides, her super power status has passed.

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China is rich because of the USA. Not the other way around.

China does have her place in prophecy, however. The 200 million man army mentioned in Revelation 9.

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Not so.....we are 2000 years into the future from when Revelation was written....we are living it. And America fits the bill.

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What reason is there to believe that it's not the one spoken of?

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The logistics quite simply do not add up. A 200 million man army cannot be effectively deployed. Most likely Revelations is using hyperbole.

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That 200 million man army from the east that marches on Jerusalem and crosses over a dry Euphrates really messes with the preterists, as it is possible only in this day that we live.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bygraceiamsaved

Professor: Reality calling Professor, reality calling professor. It doesn't fit, it's not possible and besides right now as has been pointed out to you and ignored, China is going through a God driven revival right now. This is true in Russia and Iran and Iraq. They do not have enough Bibles to meet the demand people are so hungry for them...........I personally am rejoicing.

You also fail to give the whole truth as those Muslims who want to take out Israel are a few minority radicals who are now in hiding and not so brave as before the United States jumped in. This directly from a soldier who just came back from the war straight to my ears.