|
Users viewing this topic:
mcleod
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/21/2005 10:34:15 PM
|
|
|
DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear lightseeker:
You:
"Ephesians 6:18 Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, "
Me: We are NOT taught to pray TO any other Spirit than IN and TO God.
You:
There are many verses about praying for each other.
Me: TO God is key. Pray to God. HIS Holy Spirit.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/21/2005 10:57:40 PM
|
|
|
onelordofall
Posts: 262
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear catherwood,
Though you didn't address me directly in your response, I pray you allow me to contribute.
quote:
The word 'prayer' does include in it the idea of worship and is distinguished from requests and petitions. You will see this if you do a study of the passage Phil. 4.6,7. "Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding shall guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.' See, prayer and supplications are separate terms and they are used that way because they have two different meanings.
You quote a passage that affirms that "prayer and supplication with thanksgiving" can be "requests" made to God. How does this support your position that the souls of the just made perfect [see Heb. 12:23] are prohibited from perfectly making "requests" of God for the sake of others? Aren't "perfect saints" more concerned about others than themselves, just like Christ? I've never gotten a straight evangelical answer to the questions raised by Heb. 12:22-24; perhaps you'll be the first? That would be quite refreshing for a change.
If every "believer" is made "perfect" the moment he/she believes and reads the bible, why does God's word tell us the "just" are "made perfect" in Hebrews 12:23?
quote:
Notice the plain meaning of these verses.
Apparently, our definition of "plain meaning" is lightyears apart...unfortunately.
quote:
It is God's peace that guards our hearts and minds. That peace comes to us through Jesus Christ. It doesn't come to us through anyone else.
Actually, Christ made a whole lot of very bold promises to those who believed and followed His commands. With some promises came great responsibility. You seem like a reasonable soul...is it so hard to believe that the "inheritance of the saints" spoken of by St. Paul is as glorious as he said it was BECAUSE of the Grace of our Savior? I really don't understand your objection.
quote:
The requests are to be to God and no one else. If you do something that Scripture doesn't specifically say to do - i.e. - ask dead saints to pray for you
Our Lord already conquered death. There is no such thing as a "dead saint."
quote:
- you have no way of knowing what is really going on because Scripture is silent on the issue.
This is where you are wrong...only those children of the "Reformation" have "no way of knowing what is really going on because Scripture is silent on the issue." [Naturally, I disagree that Scripture is "silent" on the issue. Some folks just may not be able to recognize the evidence for what it is.] It all boils down to faith, I suppose. One can choose to place their faith in their own interpretation of Scripture as the only infallible means of finding God's Truth, or one can believe Christ's promise of the Spirit to guide, lead, and never leave His Church hasn't failed.
I tend to lean toward trusting Christ's promises to His Church.
quote:
All you can do is make assumptions, guesses or wishes about what is going on. Are these dead saints praying for me? Did they hear me from heaven (which is beyond outerspace by the way
Forgive my asking, but who told you heaven "is beyond outerspace?" You interpret St. Paul's ecstasy and mystical journey to the "third heaven" as being a specific location beyond our galaxy? "Outerspace?"
quote:
Why would I think that a human beyond outerspace would be able to hear what I say on earth? Humans aren't omniscient.
Perhaps you can expound on the qualities experienced by glorified humans who are able to stand in the Presence of God? Do you believe God is in "outerspace?" Why do you believe He can hear our prayers but He would prevent the "spirits of the just made perfect" from hearing our prayers? Do you believe our Father is selfish and egotistical enough to keep Him from keeping His promises to share everything with us who believe in His Son? Is the Grace offered by Christ impotent when it comes to becoming co-heirs with Him as He promised?
quote:
But what is clearly taught in Scripture is that 'whatever is not of faith is sin' Rom. 14.23. Guessing, wishing and assuming are not faith.
Very true. I would suggest you not ask for the Saints' intercession until you truly believe. Perhaps that won't happen until you meet them face-to-face. [Personally, I think they're praying for you anyway....what else would a perfected saint do?]
Pleasure meeting you.
Michael
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/22/2005 3:34:53 PM
|
|
|
Heavyduty
Posts: 18
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DeborahL
Dear Heavy duty:
"Ok, then its not "praying" to the saints, its asking them to intercede"
Me: NO:
THAT IS NOT THE GOSPEL OF GOD.
Intercession = Our Savior.
Grace and Peace
I think what you mean is Mediator = Our Savior and this is true (Tim. 2:5). Mediator however, does not equal Intecessor. If you pray for someone else you are involved in intecessory prayer and if you are saved, you are a saint and if you die here on earth you are still a saint, and you are still alive with Christ and you are aware of what is happening here on earth as Jesus illustrated in 16:20-31. In fact, the rich man in this parable was asking Abraham to intercede on his behalf and on behalf of his relatives that they may not go to hell. Those who have left this world and entered the next seem to be aware of what is happening here and are not disconnected from it.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/22/2005 4:01:35 PM
|
|
|
1lightseeker
Posts: 504
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DeborahL
Dear lightseeker:
You:
"Ephesians 6:18 Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, "
Me: We are NOT taught to pray TO any other Spirit than IN and TO God.
You:
There are many verses about praying for each other.
Me: TO God is key. Pray to God. HIS Holy Spirit.
The difference in understanding is that we believe that asking a fellow-believer to pray for us is the same as asking a Saint. And we believe this is effective only because His Holy Spirit is in the Saint, in a far less inhibited way than in most earthly pilgrims. And it is also a matter of proportion. The ratio of Orthodox requests and attributions to Saints is very small compared to our "prayer" to God.
_____________________________
My Blog
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/22/2005 4:30:01 PM
|
|
|
DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear Heavyduty:
You: I think what you mean is Mediator = Our Savior and this is true (Tim. 2:5). Mediator however, does not equal Intecessor.
Me: Jesus IS not only intercessor but also the mediator of a new convenant.
You: If you pray for someone else you are involved in intecessory prayer and if you are saved, you are a saint and if you die here on earth you are still a saint, and you are still alive with Christ and you are aware of what is happening here on earth as Jesus illustrated in 16:20-31.
Me: Jesus did not teach us to pray TO another being than God. The HOly Spirit is the only Spirit that we pray TO.
You: In fact, the rich man in this parable was asking Abraham to intercede on his behalf and on behalf of his relatives that they may not go to hell. Those who have left this world and entered the next seem to be aware of what is happening here and are not disconnected from it.
Me: Abraham and the rich man were dead, though in two different places.
The word teaches us that Abraham did not intercede and gave the reason.
Grace and Peace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/22/2005 4:38:14 PM
|
|
|
DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear lightseeker:
You: The difference in understanding is that we believe that asking a fellow-believer to pray for us is the same as asking a Saint.
Me: Jesus did not teach us TO pray TO another being than God for all needs. Any other teaching than Christ is simply false.
Jesus set the example through what he did and taught from His word.
You: And we believe this is effective only because His Holy Spirit is in the Saint, in a far less inhibited way than in most earthly pilgrims.
Me: The Holy Spirit testifies Jesus, not another spirit. The Holy Spirit is whom we go TO. Jesus said if a man enters the gate-and HE alone is the gate, by any other way-he is a theif and a robber.
You: And it is also a matter of proportion. The ratio of Orthodox requests and attributions to Saints is very small compared to our "prayer" to God.
Me: NO.
It is not a matter of proportion--it is a matter of purity.
Grace and Peace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/22/2005 4:47:09 PM
|
|
|
GoodME
Posts: 120
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DeborahL
Me: Jesus did not teach us TO pray TO another being than God for all needs. Any other teaching than Christ is simply false.
So when Paul in his Epistles asks for prayers and supplications of the Faithful and offers his for them - he is being false?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/22/2005 8:19:54 PM
|
|
|
DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear Goodme:
You: So when Paul in his Epistles asks for prayers and supplications of the Faithful and offers his for them - he is being false?
Me: Of course not. The ''''distinction''' is prayng in our spirit TO ANOTHER spirit being than GOd, THE HOLY SPIRIT, for all requests, needs, worship; and honor, glory and praise.
Paul does not violate what '''Jesus''' exampled for the body.
Grace and Peace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/23/2005 1:47:31 AM
|
|
|
Radlad72
Posts: 9
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
Matthew 6: 9-13 tells us exactly how we should pray. And the prayer does not start "Hail Mary,..."
Rad
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/23/2005 5:05:59 AM
|
|
|
sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Radlad72
Matthew 6: 9-13 tells us exactly how we should pray. And the prayer does not start "Hail Mary,..."
Rad
Dear Radlad,
Neither does it began, "O Lord," or "Dear Jesus"
On the Feast of St. George
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
< Message edited by sdaw -- 4/24/2005 12:56:29 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/23/2005 8:40:34 AM
|
|
|
1lightseeker
Posts: 504
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DeborahL
Dear Goodme:
You: So when Paul in his Epistles asks for prayers and supplications of the Faithful and offers his for them - he is being false?
Me: Of course not. The ''''distinction''' is prayng in our spirit TO ANOTHER spirit being than GOd, THE HOLY SPIRIT, for all requests, needs, worship; and honor, glory and praise.
Paul does not violate what '''Jesus''' exampled for the body.
Grace and Peace
It seems you're saying we're praying to the Holy Spirit. The Lord's Prayer starts with Our Father.
I now see how you are distinguishing why you believe that it is ok to ask earthbound Christians to pray for us, and not passed on Christians. We however do not discriminate between those with bodies and those who are awaiting their bodies. That makes them seem like second class citizens of heaven.
_____________________________
My Blog
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/23/2005 6:40:00 PM
|
|
|
Heavyduty
Posts: 18
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DeborahL
Me: Jesus did not teach us to pray TO another being than God. The HOly Spirit is the only Spirit that we pray TO.
According to the Gospels, Jesus didn't teach us to use an organ, or a guitar, or drums when we sing praises. He didn't tell us what exact words to use when we sing, he didn't teach us to have sunday school and he didn't teach us to have youth groups, he didn't teach us to tithe, he didn't tell us to use the writings of the Apostles as scripture, he didn't even instruct us to compile "The Bible".
There are many things that we do as Christians that Jesus didn't teach us to do. BUT he didn't forbid us to do it either. In fact, if talking to those saints who have passed on into the afterlife is a sin than Jesus must have sinned on the mountain during the Transfiguration cause he talked up a storm with Moses and Elijah.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/23/2005 6:55:58 PM
|
|
|
divinemercy
Posts: 46
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Heavyduty
quote:
ORIGINAL: DeborahL
Me: Jesus did not teach us to pray TO another being than God. The HOly Spirit is the only Spirit that we pray TO.
According to the Gospels, Jesus didn't teach us to use an organ, or a guitar, or drums when we sing praises. He didn't tell us what exact words to use when we sing, he didn't teach us to have sunday school and he didn't teach us to have youth groups, he didn't teach us to tithe, he didn't tell us to use the writings of the Apostles as scripture, he didn't even instruct us to compile "The Bible".
There are many things that we do as Christians that Jesus didn't teach us to do. BUT he didn't forbid us to do it either. In fact, if talking to those saints who have passed on into the afterlife is a sin than Jesus must have sinned on the mountain during the Transfiguration cause he talked up a storm with Moses and Elijah.
Exactly.
_____________________________
Let your spirits rejoice in the mercy of God, and be not ashamed to give Him praise.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/23/2005 6:59:27 PM
|
|
|
divinemercy
Posts: 46
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
DeborahL,
How come in the OT a man asked and received advice from someone that had died(in the body)?
and it came to pass exactly as the dead(in the body) man said?
_____________________________
Let your spirits rejoice in the mercy of God, and be not ashamed to give Him praise.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/23/2005 9:30:52 PM
|
|
|
onelordofall
Posts: 262
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
In order to understand Catholic devotion when it comes to the Saints, one must first grasp the spirituality of 1Cor. 12.
"If [one] part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if one part is honored, all the parts share its joy." St. Paul, 1Cor. 12:26
Wouldn't hurt to keep reading through Chapter 13, too.
Unless some folks believe that the members of Christ's Body are amputated by physical death, I really don't understand all the evangelical objection. As a Catholic Christian, I believe Our Lord Jesus Christ conquered death so that we may have eternal life. Do some Christian folks not believe this?
Nothing puzzles me more than discussions with evangelicals related to this topic. What on earth are we saved for if we do not finally love as He loves?
Wishing you all His Peace,
Michael
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/24/2005 8:59:18 PM
|
|
|
LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1840
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: HeadHome
In post #2, S. Benedict said:
The historic Christian practice of asking our departed brothers and sisters in Christ—the saints—for their intercession has come under attack in the last few hundred years. Though the practice dates to the earliest days of Christianity and is shared by Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, the other Eastern Christians, and even some Anglicans.
—Meaning that all-told it is shared by more than three quarters of the Christians on earth—it still comes under heavy attack from many within the Protestant movement that started in the sixteenth century.
...And I'm one of the attackers. But as a God-blessed, nondenominational, evangelical, fundemental, Scripture-loving Protestant, I tip my hat to you, S. Benedict. I have no interest in converting to Catholicism. But in order to explain the reasons why I disagree with your conclusion, I will have to do some research. To me, that's a mark of an excellent post - it made me think, meditate, examine, and pray about why I oppose your suggestion that Christians should ask the dead in Christ to pray for us. More to come...
Greetings,
[q] I have no interest in converting to Catholicism. But in order to explain the reasons why I disagree with your conclusion, I will have to do some research. To me, that's a mark of an excellent post - it made me think, meditate, examine, and pray about why I oppose your suggestion that Christians should ask the dead in Christ to pray for us. More to come... [/q]
It is very hard to research the three and one half years the disciples walked with Christ and the 12 years Jesus spent quoting the Torah to determined where any viable information, that can be found.
Either from the Mouth of Christ or written in the Torah that the living conversed with the dead, Unless Saul was just kidding when he sought the sorceress, and even that brought destruction upon his family.
And again it did not free the rich man from Hades.
Again in the symbolism of Lazarus and the rich man, the dead is speaking to the dead and no where was it mentioned that the souls in heaven would relay that message.
When the rich man cried out to Abraham and asked him to tell his family about his pain in Hades
The reply in the message given to the rich man on the behalf of those who are alive was to seek Moses and the prophets or in other words “the word of God.”
Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you."
According to the verse above, the dead can’t walk up to me on any given day and give to me out of the kindness of their hearts or of their possessions as to be led by God to do so.
Unless of course you were mentioned in a will or something like that.
But, then again one can not give thanks to dead ears. God is a living God.
“For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you”
If this applies to the dead then the only thing they have to offer is death, pressed down, shaken together, and running over.
One must remember that God in the beginning “saw that it was good” so I am quite sure God also possesses the “other 4 senses.”
Loyal Gypsy
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/24/2005 10:17:35 PM
|
|
|
DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear Rad:
"Matthew 6: 9-13 tells us exactly how we should pray. And the prayer does not start "Hail Mary,...""
Me: Praise God yes! God's word is truth. However unpopular to many. Stand firm Rad.
Bless you.
Grace and peace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/24/2005 10:41:07 PM
|
|
|
DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear lightseeker:
You: It seems you're saying we're praying to the Holy Spirit.
Me: YUP> God is Spirit. He seeks those who worship in his spirit and his truth. Prayer demonstrates TO GOD the most sincere worship, along with our expressions of obedience to his commands.
You: The Lord's Prayer starts with Our Father.
ME: YUP> who is Spirit: hallowed be thy name.
Jesus and the Spirit are ONE with God. They are his NAME.
You: I now see how you are distinguishing why you believe that it is ok to ask earthbound Christians to pray for us, and not passed on Christians.
Me: No. I do NOT think you do--you have not stated my position.
You: We however do not discriminate between those with bodies and those who are awaiting their bodies. That makes them seem like second class citizens of heaven.
Me: Bless you--you are expressing your agenda--but not what CHRIST, imho-has taught us FROM HIS WORD, and thus his prayers. Which are the way truth and life for us.
I do not worry if this is unpopular but I am concern to please God. And then, in a loving manner to you.
And so, again: I see. I do not please you, thought I desire to love you--and I do this reply, for you, because I delight in his word.
All the Amens are only in Christ. And we cannot go to another idol for any amen.
Grace and Peace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/24/2005 10:52:09 PM
|
|
|
DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear heavy duty:
Me: Jesus did not teach us to pray TO another being than God. The HOlY Spirit is the only Spirit that we pray TO.
You: According to the Gospels, Jesus didn't teach us to use an organ, or a guitar, or drums when we sing praises. He didn't tell us what exact words to use when we sing, he didn't teach us to have sunday school and he didn't teach us to have youth groups, he didn't teach us to tithe, he didn't tell us to use the writings of the Apostles as scripture, he didn't even instruct us to compile "The Bible".
Me: I respectfully disagree: God gave us his word. And through his word we come to know that God has granted us belief unto his Son and also to be sanctified. Your example is earthly. God's is from above for us.
You: There are many things that we do as Christians that Jesus didn't teach us to do.
BUT he didn't forbid us to do it either. In fact, if talking to those saints who have passed on into the afterlife is a sin than Jesus must have sinned on the mountain during the Transfiguration cause he talked up a storm with Moses and Elijah
Me: You must clarify yourself here--for you do not sound like a man of faith in a sinless Savior. In your above post.
I'll stand with Jessu and gladly put on ''his armor'' and no other.
Grace and Peace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/24/2005 10:59:29 PM
|
|
|
DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear Divinemercy:
"DeborahL,
How come in the OT a man asked and received advice from someone that had died(in the body)?
and it came to pass exactly as the dead(in the body) man said?"
Me:
Why do you not be transparent and tell us?
Grace and Peace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/24/2005 11:15:35 PM
|
|
|
DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Hello Loyalgypsy:
"Either from the Mouth of Christ or written in the Torah that the living conversed with the dead, Unless Saul was just kidding when he sought the sorceress, and even that brought destruction upon his family.
And again it did not free the rich man from Hades.
Again in the symbolism of Lazarus and the rich man, the dead is speaking to the dead and no where was it mentioned that the souls in heaven would relay that message.
When the rich man cried out to Abraham and asked him to tell his family about his pain in Hades
The reply in the message given to the rich man on the behalf of those who are alive was to seek Moses and the prophets or in other words “the word of God.”"
Me: It is very good to see you.
Grace and peace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/25/2005 12:00:11 AM
|
|
|
Heavyduty
Posts: 18
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DeborahL
You: There are many things that we do as Christians that Jesus didn't teach us to do.
BUT he didn't forbid us to do it either. In fact, if talking to those saints who have passed on into the afterlife is a sin than Jesus must have sinned on the mountain during the Transfiguration cause he talked up a storm with Moses and Elijah
Me: You must clarify yourself here--for you do not sound like a man of faith in a sinless Savior. In your above post.
I'll stand with Jessu and gladly put on ''his armor'' and no other.
Grace and Peace
So then you agree that Jesus was not sinning by talking to the departed Saints and they were not sinning by talking to him.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/25/2005 6:34:22 AM
|
|
|
divinemercy
Posts: 46
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DeborahL
Dear Divinemercy:
"DeborahL,
How come in the OT a man asked and received advice from someone that had died(in the body)?
and it came to pass exactly as the dead(in the body) man said?"
Me:
Why do you not be transparent and tell us?
Grace and Peace
1 Samuel 28
15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" Saul answered, "I am in great distress; for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams; therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do." 16 And Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has turned from you and become your enemy? 17 The LORD has done to you as he spoke by me; for the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand, and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD, and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Am'alek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. 19 Moreover the LORD will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines; and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me; the LORD will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines."20 Then Saul fell at once full length upon the ground, filled with fear because of the words of Samuel; and there was no strength in him, for he had eaten nothing all day and all night.
I will not paste all of chapters 28-31 for reason of space.
But Samuel asking Saul and Saul speaking back to him and giving the advice is in Chapter 28
The battle and defeat of Israel in Chapters 29-31.
Saul said Samuel and his sons would be with Saul(they would die) is in chapter 31.
6 Thus Saul died, and his three sons, and his armor-bearer, and all his men, on the same day together
Just as Saul ,who was dead in body, said.
_____________________________
Let your spirits rejoice in the mercy of God, and be not ashamed to give Him praise.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/25/2005 6:46:54 AM
|
|
|
divinemercy
Posts: 46
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
DeborahL:
quote:
no where was it mentioned that the souls in heaven would relay that message.
Saul told him his fate and Israels fate of something that was future. And it came to pass.
Saul didnt pull that rabbit out of his own hat.
_____________________________
Let your spirits rejoice in the mercy of God, and be not ashamed to give Him praise.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Praying to the Saints & Mary? - 4/25/2005 6:53:16 AM
|
|
|
divinemercy
Posts: 46
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
When someone says prayer or praying they are communicating (talking). Nothing more. That is what prayer means.
When one asks petitions of God or the saints, they are communicating (talking).
Worship does not equal prayer.
Plenty of prayers contain no worship. Prayers to God by us, of contrition and repentance, and supplication and intercession.
But we worship God through (by) prayer and of course by our words and actions through daily life.
I think that is how you may be confused by what this thread is all about.
_____________________________
Let your spirits rejoice in the mercy of God, and be not ashamed to give Him praise.
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
