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[Poll]
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What role should the Church play in the Election?
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| Churches should be allowed to tell Congregants who to vote for. |
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| Churches should not be allowed to tell Congregants who to vote for. |
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| Undecided |
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Total Votes : 38
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(last vote on : 10/17/2008 11:10:50 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/4/2008 10:03:17 PM
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campbe33
Posts: 422
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
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I hold to the belief Politics has no business in the Church/Pulpit. Preaching how we as Christians should vote in the House of God is wrong. We as Christians cannot force our beliefs on this nation or the world through politics, and it’s wrong to attempt to do so. If you read your bible Jesus never got involved with the politics of his time (even though the Jews were being oppressed by the Romans) except to say, “render to ceasar what is caesar’s”. The Apostle’s didn’t get invovled with politic’s either. Their purpose wasn’t to take over the world governments; it was to spread the word of Jesus Christ. We should be winning people over to the Lord by our personal testimonies. Remember as Christians we are in the world and not of the world. If we could change things in this world by taking over the government and forcing people to follow our belief’s by making and changing laws then there would be no need for a Second coming of Christ. God doesn’t want people forced to believe as we do, he wants people to choose freely to follow him. During the last election if you didn't vote the way the Right wanted you to you were considered unchristian. All the Right Wing accomplished during the last election was to alienate our nation. Church attendence fell and those we would reach out to thought we were fanatics. It’s time for all Christians to stop trying to force our beliefs on everyone through the government. We need to get back to what the true purpose of the church really is, which is to make disciples of all nations. We need to vote for the Candidate who through research we feel will do the best job for the "whole nation". People need to actually research the Candidates instead being swayed just by what their Pastor's and other people tell them. Just take a look at our nation today. There are more people who are jobless, homeless or about to lose their homes then there has been in decades. Our national debt has risen to beyond belief. I’m not voting on my religious beliefs, but on what I feel is best for the nation as a whole and you should too.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/4/2008 10:34:05 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2454
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
What role should the Church play in the Election?
The Church should be the head, and not the tail.
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/4/2008 10:40:36 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11501
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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You've got two issues here;
1) Pastors endorsing candidates from the pulpit: quote:
Preaching how we as Christians should vote in the House of God is wrong.... People need to actually research the Candidates instead being swayed just by what their Pastor's and other people tell them.
I agree. Pastors should not endorse political parties or specific candidates.
2) Christians participating in government, period: quote:
If you read your bible Jesus never got involved with the politics of his time (even though the Jews were being oppressed by the Romans) except to say, “render to ceasar what is caesar’s”. The Apostle’s didn’t get invovled with politic’s either. Their purpose wasn’t to take over the world governments; it was to spread the word of Jesus Christ. We should be winning people over to the Lord by our personal testimonies. Remember as Christians we are in the world and not of the world. If we could change things in this world by taking over the government and forcing people to follow our belief’s by making and changing laws then there would be no need for a Second coming of Christ.
I agree we should be focused on making disciples. However, I will be voting. Why? It's my civic duty. It's a responsibility given to me by my country, the authority placed over me.
We as Christians SHOULD vote our faith! Our beliefs are WHO WE ARE. If I were to vote for someone who most contradicts my beliefs, morals, and principles, then am I really living out my faith? I cannot separate my faith from my daily life, including my vote.
_____________________________
Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/4/2008 10:48:00 PM
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campbe33
Posts: 422
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
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Do you mean that the Church should be the head of the government? Well the Catholics sure proved having the church as the head of state was a good idea. The Church shouldn't be the head, God should be the head and that's where people get mixed up. The world is as God would have it be. Remember it's God who establishes Kingdom's and he tears them down as well.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/4/2008 11:01:07 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
Do you mean that the Church should be the head of the government?
Maybe I missed it but who said that?
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/4/2008 11:03:36 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11501
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
Do you mean that the Church should be the head of the government?
Maybe I missed it but who said that?
I'm thinking he was responding to LoyalGypsy.
I never did understand what that whole "head, not the tail" thing meant.
_____________________________
Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/4/2008 11:19:04 PM
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campbe33
Posts: 422
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
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ta_mosquito
I wasn't implying Christians shouldn't vote or get involved in the political arena. It's a very slippery slope.
Example:
My faith tells me homosexuality is wrong. I do not appprove of same sex marriage. I do, however, believe same sex couples should be entitled to the same benefits as married couples. They should be allowed to put their partners and any children from prior relationships or born/acquired during the relationship on their Medical Insurance. My faith tells me the children should not suffer for the sins of their mothers/fathers. So, you see my quandary.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/4/2008 11:38:32 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8030
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It is a pastor's duty to inform his flock if one of the candidates is not suitable for a Christian to vote for.
If the candidate is pro abortion, pro normalization of homosexual behavior, etc, then that pastor had better be telling his congregants not to vote for him.
We are not to be unequally yoked. How can we yoke ourselves to a person for 4 years if they are practing anti-biblical behaviors?
< Message edited by John_O -- 10/4/2008 11:52:07 PM >
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/4/2008 11:40:54 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8030
Joined: 9/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
The world is as God would have it be.
No the world is as man's sin has corrupted it to be because the people of God have not fulfilled their role to be salt and light. God is not the author of pornography and other sins.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/4/2008 11:51:24 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8030
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
I wasn't implying Christians shouldn't vote or get involved in the political arena. It's a very slippery slope.
Yes it is. If we fail to lead the world goes to hell in a handbasket. We (the church) rolled over on abortion and now 45 + million innocents have been butchered in the womb. We (the church) rolled over on easy divorce and now marriage rates (and marriage success rates) are plummeting resulting in thousands of children being raised in broken homes, deprived of the two parents God designed them to have. We (the church) rolled over on sexual perversion being portrayed as normal and now we have homosexuals demanding access to children.
quote:
Example:
My faith tells me homosexuality is wrong. I do not appprove of same sex marriage. I do, however, believe same sex couples should be entitled to the same benefits as married couples.
Why? They are not married. They cannot produce children. Everything they are seeking can be done already through contractual arrangements. Why does it need to be called marriage? Only to destroy biblical marriage.
Rather than encouraging these people to remain in their sin by enabling them to 'be married' we (the church) should be fighting tooth and nail to make them see that they are heading to hell. If we roll over on this their blood is on our hands.
quote:
They should be allowed to put their partners and any children from prior relationships or born/acquired during the relationship on their Medical Insurance.
Why? the child is not theirs. Should I be able to put my business partner's kids on my insurance (assuming I had a business partner)? We'd have the same relationship as any other two guys (totally unrelated males). Should I be able to put my brother's kids on my insurance? We have an even closer relationship than two guys practicing sexual deviancy (at least we would be related). Marriage is one man and one woman. period.
quote:
My faith tells me the children should not suffer for the sins of their mothers/fathers. So, you see my quandary.
So rather than encourage their parent to repent and get his kids into a normal home situation you want the kids to be raised thinking that sexual perversion (abomination as God calls it) is normal? Why not just put the kid in a chute and send him straight to hell, the end result is the same.
The church must stand up and get more involved in politics. We must expose those candidates who are immoral and anti-biblical and encourage our members to vote biblically (admittedly sometimes this does result in voting for the lessor of two evils but when souls are on the line the least damaging candidate at least gets us more time to reach people)
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 12:03:09 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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I would say that it is improper for any preacher to say that their congregation must vote for a certain candidate, or even to say it is "more Christian" for them to vote for a certain candidate. The fact that godly, Bible-believing Christians fall on all sides of the political debate shows me that God is neither Republican, Democrat, nor some other party.
Now, if an individual congregant wants advise, and acts the pastor personally, then I think it's fine for that pastor to give their opinion. But aside from that, it's almost as bad as celebrities getting on TV to endorse a candidate. Preachers are not politicians. I wouldn't listen to McCain or Obama about the Bible, why should I listen to my pastor about politics?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 12:27:52 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
My faith tells me homosexuality is wrong. I do not appprove of same sex marriage. I do, however, believe same sex couples should be entitled to the same benefits as married couples. They should be allowed to put their partners and any children from prior relationships or born/acquired during the relationship on their Medical Insurance. My faith tells me the children should not suffer for the sins of their mothers/fathers. So, you see my quandary.
Campbe33 has three posts as I read this. Then I think about the thread about the Obama operatives. I get to the third post by Campbe33, and here it is.
Why should the government mandate that private employers provide benefits to people who are not legally married? He/she uses the word entitled to. Sorry, but this is pure socialism and advocating sex outside marriage, as well as advocating sexual relationships between same sex couples.
Your faith tells you that children should not suffer for the sins of their parents. Yet, that's the thin about sin. It effects others. This is why God says clearly in His word that He hates divorce, that homosexuality is abomination, and why He gives us so many warnings to steer clear of sin. We all hate to see children suffer as a result of their parents sin. Yet, our sin causes many others to suffer without our ever realizing it.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 12:33:51 AM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
It is a pastor's duty to inform his flock if one of the candidates is not suitable for a Christian to vote for.
If the candidate is pro abortion, pro normalization of homosexual behavior, etc, then that pastor had better be telling his congregants not to vote for him.
We are not to be unequally yoked. How can we yoke ourselves to a person for 4 years if they are practing anti-biblical behaviors?
Well, that church by the laws of the land should be losing it's tax exempt status if the pastor specifically says don't vote for candidate X, because such a statement would imply an endorsement of candidate Y. Even if it wasn't a question of tax law, it's still a dangerous place for a pastor to go. A better approach is to discuss the issues at hand in the election and how they relate to God's law, and then encourage the congregants to do their research on where each candidate stands, and to prayerfully consider their decisions based on that information.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 12:44:29 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Well, that church by the laws of the land should be losing it's tax exempt status if the pastor specifically says don't vote for candidate X, because such a statement would imply an endorsement of candidate Y. Even if it wasn't a question of tax law, it's still a dangerous place for a pastor to go.
Who does a pastor trust here? God or the government? Frankly, I don't understand why pastors like Jeremiah Wright can get away with speaking about politics from the pulpit and other pastors steer clear of the subject. I seem to recall Rev. Wright making some comments about Hillary.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 12:50:24 AM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
Well, that church by the laws of the land should be losing it's tax exempt status if the pastor specifically says don't vote for candidate X, because such a statement would imply an endorsement of candidate Y. Even if it wasn't a question of tax law, it's still a dangerous place for a pastor to go.
Who does a pastor trust here? God or the government? Frankly, I don't understand why pastors like Jeremiah Wright can get away with speaking about politics from the pulpit and other pastors steer clear of the subject. I seem to recall Rev. Wright making some comments about Hillary.
It's true, it is a double standard and he should be brought to task on that. As for who a pastor trusts, obviously he should trust God, and God says we are subject to the laws of the land. So by trusting God he should present God's law and encourage his congregation to do their research on the candidates and to prayerfully consider their decision. That is truly trusting God. But then again, trusting God might mean openly endorsing a candidate and risk losing the tax exempt status and trusting that God will provide in that. Also, what's said on the pulpit is one thing, what's said in a conversation is entirely different. Catch my drift?
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 12:58:32 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Also, what's said on the pulpit is one thing, what's said in a conversation is entirely different. Catch my drift?
I catch it. Yet, what if a pastor says that God told him to preach on the matter? Civil society is going to say bring out the men in the white suits. Yet, look at Noah, Jonah, Paul, and the others that God did speak to. When we are consuming so much CNN, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, ABC, FoxNews, etc., as opposed to God's word, how are going to know if God isn't really speaking?
Uh oh, I think I hear em coming to take me away..... 
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 1:03:22 AM
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ladioffaith
Posts: 2992
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: NE Ohio (L.A. . . Lower Akron)
Status: offline
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They should host polling places if one is needed.
They should encourage their members to register and vote.
AND THAT'S IT!
I am not two years old ... I have a brain in my head, I am capable of researching issues and candidates, and I do not need my pastor or anybody else telling me who to vote for. I'm a big girl and capable of figuring out that one all by myself, thank you very much ...
_____________________________
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save.
He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with
his love, he will rejoice over you with singing." Zeph. 3:17
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 1:02:54 AM
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rgsoundguy
Posts: 398
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Pottstown, PA
Status: offline
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I would also say this. If a pastor preaches on such a thing because God told him to, I also believe he could risk losing his church over it. That is why the Bible lays out the form of church government as it does. The elders could ask him to step down for the sake of the church. There are so many ways this could go. IMHO, the best route is to encourage the congregation to make an educated and prayerful decision.
_____________________________
Albert Einstein said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That convinces me that our nation is insane because we continually elect republicans and democrats expecting change and get none.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 1:56:32 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3397
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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Pastors should have the right to endorse candidates from the pulpit...it is still america...correct? However, having the right to do something..and doint it, are two different things.
I like the way our church handles this. Before the election, our church hands out a bullitin of every person running...locally and on the federal level....and their stands on issues. Just the facts.
Christians should be represented in our government. We should be an influence on government.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 2:08:01 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1264
Joined: 10/25/2005
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First, John_O: You da man! You nailed it dead on.
Second: Pastors should be allowed to endorse whoever they want, from the pulpit. The tax-exempt status code is nothing but the world trying to silence the Church. In my opinion it is absolutely wrong to prohibit churches from participating in politics.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 2:08:02 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
SonInMe1
Pastors should have the right to endorse candidates from the pulpit...it is still america...correct? However, having the right to do something..and doint it, are two different things.
I like the way our church handles this. Before the election, our church hands out a bullitin of every person running...locally and on the federal level....and their stands on issues. Just the facts.
Christians should be represented in our government. We should be an influence on government.
On the surface, I agree with you. Yet, I think thet we have adapted worldy ways of educating. And, the ways of the world are not doing a good job of educating. In my profession, I get a chance to get out and talk with a lot of people about all kinds of issues. But, because I'm a cop, I get to speak with them mostly about what affects them where they live. Far too many of those I speak with are sorely misinformed about issues and candidates. Most of what they know is a regurgitation of what they hear on the news. Many off them will talk about how important the church is to their lives, yet nothing about how they live or talk is a reflection of Christ. I agree that pastors/the church should be encouraging people to research things on their own. If we're not influencing government, is it the fault of the pastors? Or, do we all share the blame?
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 2:14:46 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3397
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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I think government involvement by christians should be preached. We live in a representative government. WE...rule america and if it's direction isn't influenced by us at all...aren't we responsible to God for that?
We may not all agree what that influence should be, but we should influence our government and I have no problem with any pasdtor saying....we need to vote as christians. We need to think of what God would do in that booth. We need to know what the candidates stand for and if those stances are consistant with christian principles.
If we cannot vote our faith...its not a very deep faith.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 2:33:47 AM
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campbe33
Posts: 422
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
If we fail to lead the world goes to hell in a handbasket
Could you explain to me how we can prevent this? Isn't the world going to hell suppose to be the reason for the Second Coming?
quote:
We rolled over on easy divorce and now marriage rates (and marriage success rates) are plummeting resulting in thousands of children being raised in broken homes, deprived of the two parents God designed them to have.
From what I've read the divorce rate is staggering among those who are already in the "church". I really hate the term "Broken home" it sound's like there's an easy fix for it. I myself was a single a mother, my husband abused my child and I wouldn't stand for it. There was nothing "Broken about me".
quote:
Why? They are not married. They cannot produce children.
They're not married because we have voted in most states against same sex marriage. I myself don't believe in same sex marriage. They may not be able to have children physically together, but they may have children from previous relationships and marriages. They can also adopt in some places. What do you think Jesus would do about these helpless children who have no choice? You think he'd condemn them to Hell? We always say we need to protect the children, but you'd kick these children to the curb. We may not be able to get their parents to repent, but we surely can find ways to help these children. I'm not advocating same sex relationships, it's not the Adults I'm worried about (except spiritually).
quote:
So rather than encourage their parent to repent and get his kids into a normal home situation
Please explain what a normal home situation is? I understand a wife/husband, but just because you have these in a home situation does not make it normal. Pretty much all homes are dysfunctional in one way or another.
quote:
you want the kids to be raised thinking that sexual perversion (abomination as God calls it) is normal? Why not just put the kid in a chute and send him straight to hell, the end result is the same.
We of little faith.... Do you really think all of these kids raised in homosexual homes are truly going to Hell? Do you not have faith that even though they are placed in this precarious position that some of them will find their way to God. Remember we are suppose to hate the sin not the sinner.
quote:
The church must stand up and get more involved in politics. We must expose those candidates who are immoral and anti-biblical and encourage our members to vote biblically (admittedly sometimes this does result in voting for the lessor of two evils but when souls are on the line the least damaging candidate at least gets us more time to reach people)
The Church did get more involved during the last election, now look how things turned out. There are no Politicians who don't have some immorality in thier past. How each of votes is based on how we view things. No matter who a Christian votes for it doesn't make him/her any less a Christian, it just means we viewed things differently.
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RE: What role should the Church play in the Election? - 10/5/2008 2:53:35 AM
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campbe33
Posts: 422
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Campbe33 has three posts as I read this. Then I think about the thread about the Obama operatives. I get to the third post by Campbe33, and here it is.
Could you please explain this remark? I take it as you saying I am some sort of Obama Operative. I am no one's Operative except God's. If you think I'm some sort of Obama Operative then please do yourself a favor and don't read or respond to anything in my post.
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