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Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 4:43:20 PM
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solomonsprayer
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I think while Palin is an interesting person for VP, it makes it very tough for people to vote for McCain now that he is 72 years old and has health problems. If he dies, not a single person would probably think Palin is ready to run the country as President.
As VP Palin could be good and is a nice balance to McCain (age, gender, background - old/young, male/female, & military/mom), but as President, no one would believe in Palin! ...
Plus, McCain has to now deal with attacks from all sides about the inexperience of Palin and the completely odd-ball, left field choice. Stability from guys like Romney and Pawlenty, etc. would have more likely won the campaign, despite not necessarily providing an intriguing balance that Palin does.
Just my gut reaction. 
(Also, I have a weird feeling McCain is trying to desparately appeal to women, who were Hillary supporters, to swing the advantage his way....but, in the end, I think it backfires....People will realize what is going on and also critique Palin's (in)experience and readiness to run the country in case McCain dies.)
< Message edited by solomonsprayer -- 9/1/2008 4:57:13 PM >
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 4:47:21 PM
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solomonsprayer
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Also, to piggy back off of my very last point, does anyone think that if Palin was a male, she/he would have been approved?....It's cleary a strategy to use gender to get more women - and hopefully former Hillary supporter disgruntles - to swing his way. McCain seems to be dangerously playing the gender card. My theory at least. ...It's gonna back fire I say!
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 4:49:34 PM
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LivingParadox
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You really believe that?
and as for the gender card....you, sir, are dangerously close to playing it.
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 4:50:29 PM
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Jhud
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She is as capable in every respect as Obama - so we either have to conclude that the top of the Democratic ticket 'destroys their chance for winning' or you have to accept Palin's credentials for what they are.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 4:54:14 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LivingParadox
You really believe that?
and as for the gender card....you, sir, are dangerously close to playing it.
I guess it's not so much that I dislike Palin and don't believe she is qualified (which I am not completely convinced...like I said, if she was a man...I don't know that McCain would pick her) as I think the other choices were MUCH more sensible and better. That leads me to ask why McCain chose Palin?....
Again, that was my theory.
I could be guilty of the gender card. But this is how it looks to me at the moment.
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:02:03 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
I guess it's not so much that I dislike Palin and don't believe she is qualified (which I am not completely convinced...like I said, if she was a man...I don't know that McCain would pick her) as I think the other choices were MUCH more sensible and better. That leads me to ask why McCain chose Palin?....
Again, that was my theory.
I could be guilty of the gender card. But this is how it looks to me at the moment.
Actually, I think the left had already begun to criticize McCain's other possible choices - and the minute they were chosen, none of the left would have cared how much 'experience' they had.
Indeed, we need to remember that Cheny, who is the most experienced VP we may have ever had was consistently criticized for controlling the Presidency - so that simply shows the left isn't really concerned about this issue, it simply doesn't like Palin's politics.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:02:22 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
She is as capable in every respect as Obama - so we either have to conclude that the top of the Democratic ticket 'destroys their chance for winning' or you have to accept Palin's credentials for what they are.
True, but Obama has more experience for sure. I don't know that Obama has a ton of experience to be President (....then again, they said that about Bill Clinton), but he'd be a great VP imo. ....
I think all said, regardless of whether Obama is seen to have enough experience or not to be President, Palin's experience or lack thereof must stand on its own in analysis.
Looking at her accomplishments so far, she does not stand out necessarily. That's why I asked if she were a man, would McCain and others take her on?....
I'm not saying Palin is bad!!!.....just an odd odd choice with little history/experience.
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:04:54 PM
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tafkam
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I'll take Palin's two years as governor over Obama's whopping 143 days as a US Senator any day of the week...
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Tafkam
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:07:12 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
True, but Obama has more experience for sure. I don't know that Obama has a ton of experience to be President (....then again, they said that about Bill Clinton), but he'd be a great VP imo. ....
I think all said, regardless of whether Obama is seen to have enough experience or not to be President, Palin's experience or lack thereof must stand on its own in analysis.
Looking at her accomplishments so far, she does not stand out necessarily. That's why I asked if she were a man, would McCain and others take her on?....
I'm not saying Palin is bad!!!.....just an odd odd choice with little history/experience.
I certainly think Palin is a daring choice - especially considering that most in this race are deep Washington insiders with which we have little hope for change in DC - but with his pick of Palin, McCain signals a desire for a completely new direction, and that is hopeful.
Barack, depsite his historic nomination from a racial perspective, is little different than Edwards or Biden from the perspective of policy and the establishment - Palin instead brings the heart of America to DC, and that is experience is the sort one could never get from DC.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:12:57 PM
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Thessa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
I think while Palin is an interesting person for VP, it makes it very tough for people to vote for McCain now that he is 72 years old and has health problems. If he dies, not a single person would probably think Palin is ready to run the country as President.
What health problems does he have? I havent heard of any.
Obama can die as well. Just because McCain is 72 dosent mean hes for sure gonna die in the next 8 years. But how nice of people to think he is...
quote:
As VP Palin could be good and is a nice balance to McCain (age, gender, background - old/young, male/female, & military/mom), but as President, no one would believe in Palin! ...
The word 'no one' is innacurate. I think she would do a better job than Obama could ever do. And so do other people ive spoken with - so you cant say NO ONE because thats not true at all.
quote:
Plus, McCain has to now deal with attacks from all sides about the inexperience of Palin and the completely odd-ball, left field choice. Stability from guys like Romney and Pawlenty, etc. would have more likely won the campaign, despite not necessarily providing an intriguing balance that Palin does.
McCain dosent have to deal with anything. Its obvious the democrats and the media would try to dig up everything they can on her and that they would try to run her into the ground at every given moment. Its called politics. And unfortunately some Americans take right to the junk they feed them.
quote:
(Also, I have a weird feeling McCain is trying to desparately appeal to women, who were Hillary supporters, to swing the advantage his way....but, in the end, I think it backfires....People will realize what is going on and also critique Palin's (in)experience and readiness to run the country in case McCain dies.)
I wish some people would stop saying that. lol
Hillary supporters like HILLARY. She is no Palin thats for sure. Palin is CLASSY. Hillary isnt. Nowhere close to it. The ones that vote because of Palin will be doing it because they like PALIN. And McCain. Period.
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:13:29 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
True, but Obama has more experience for sure. I don't know that Obama has a ton of experience to be President (....then again, they said that about Bill Clinton), but he'd be a great VP imo. ....
I think all said, regardless of whether Obama is seen to have enough experience or not to be President, Palin's experience or lack thereof must stand on its own in analysis.
Looking at her accomplishments so far, she does not stand out necessarily. That's why I asked if she were a man, would McCain and others take her on?....
I'm not saying Palin is bad!!!.....just an odd odd choice with little history/experience.
I certainly think Palin is a daring choice - especially considering that most in this race are deep Washington insiders with which we have little hope for change in DC - but with his pick of Palin, McCain signals a desire for a completely new direction, and that is hopeful.
Barack, depsite his historic nomination from a racial perspective, is little different than Edwards or Biden from the perspective of policy and the establishment - Palin instead brings the heart of America to DC, and that is experience is the sort one could never get from DC.
Good analysis.
I need to read up more on Palin. My post may have been completely knee-jerk reaction.
I like how you lump Obama in with the other old-school Washington cats. ...He does a lot of smooth talking (like Bill Clinton) with little action that is radically different from the rest of D.C. In fact, when I read his thougths on policy, they are not different from many other Democrats (hardly distinguishable from Hillary's...in fact, Hillary had better policy solutions, IMO....she had both good moral philosophy - except for abortion/gay rights stuff - and good specific solutions...Obama had vague moral philosophy and impractical specific solutions.)
I agree Palin is daring, but still a scary choice, considering McCain literally might die 1 second after election is done being so old.
We still don't know enough about Palin.
But also, supposing that McCain sincerely blieves in Palin, it still also has strategic value does it not? ..Getting women voters...white undecided.....and former Hillary disgruntled?.....and balances out himself (age, gender, background)? ....
I just think for all it brings, it can also backfire majorly. That's the risk, despite whether Palin is a great candidate or not.
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:16:53 PM
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Jhud
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All I know is I will take a woman who can take down a moose over a man who wants to ban guns any day of the week.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:19:07 PM
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litfire2000
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quote:
I certainly think Palin is a daring choice - especially considering that most in this race are deep Washington insiders with which we have little hope for change in DC - but with his pick of Palin, McCain signals a desire for a completely new direction, and that is hopeful.
Barack, depsite his historic nomination from a racial perspective, is little different than Edwards or Biden from the perspective of policy and the establishment - Palin instead brings the heart of America to DC, and that is experience is the sort one could never get from DC.
very well said...you make many good points...from what i've seen and heard, palin is very popular in alaska with a high approval rating like 80% ...and she seems to be tough enough to hold her own in politics...mccain could have made safer choices but personally i think he made a right choice
_____________________________
Ps. 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:21:11 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 523
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
I think while Palin is an interesting person for VP, it makes it very tough for people to vote for McCain now that he is 72 years old and has health problems. If he dies, not a single person would probably think Palin is ready to run the country as President.
What health problems does he have? I havent heard of any.
Obama can die as well. Just because McCain is 72 dosent mean hes for sure gonna die in the next 8 years. But how nice of people to think he is...
quote:
As VP Palin could be good and is a nice balance to McCain (age, gender, background - old/young, male/female, & military/mom), but as President, no one would believe in Palin! ...
The word 'no one' is innacurate. I think she would do a better job than Obama could ever do. And so do other people ive spoken with - so you cant say NO ONE because thats not true at all.
quote:
Plus, McCain has to now deal with attacks from all sides about the inexperience of Palin and the completely odd-ball, left field choice. Stability from guys like Romney and Pawlenty, etc. would have more likely won the campaign, despite not necessarily providing an intriguing balance that Palin does.
McCain dosent have to deal with anything. Its obvious the democrats and the media would try to dig up everything they can on her and that they would try to run her into the ground at every given moment. Its called politics. And unfortunately some Americans take right to the junk they feed them.
quote:
(Also, I have a weird feeling McCain is trying to desparately appeal to women, who were Hillary supporters, to swing the advantage his way....but, in the end, I think it backfires....People will realize what is going on and also critique Palin's (in)experience and readiness to run the country in case McCain dies.)
I wish some people would stop saying that. lol
Hillary supporters like HILLARY. She is no Palin thats for sure. Palin is CLASSY. Hillary isnt. Nowhere close to it. The ones that vote because of Palin will be doing it because they like PALIN. And McCain. Period.
Good points! ...I never said my opinion was permanent....it's provisional, so I may agree with you if my analysis and further research yield new light onto these points.....
Thanks.
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:22:31 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 523
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quote:
ORIGINAL: litfire2000
quote:
I certainly think Palin is a daring choice - especially considering that most in this race are deep Washington insiders with which we have little hope for change in DC - but with his pick of Palin, McCain signals a desire for a completely new direction, and that is hopeful.
Barack, depsite his historic nomination from a racial perspective, is little different than Edwards or Biden from the perspective of policy and the establishment - Palin instead brings the heart of America to DC, and that is experience is the sort one could never get from DC.
very well said...you make many good points...from what i've seen and heard, palin is very popular in alaska with a high approval rating like 80% ...and she seems to be tough enough to hold her own in politics...mccain could have made safer choices but personally i think he made a right choice
Good point too...better to make the right choice than safe choice. Well thought and said!
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:31:50 PM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
I think while Palin is an interesting person for VP, it makes it very tough for people to vote for McCain now that he is 72 years old and has health problems. If he dies, not a single person would probably think Palin is ready to run the country as President.
What health problems does he have? I havent heard of any.
Obama can die as well. Just because McCain is 72 dosent mean hes for sure gonna die in the next 8 years. But how nice of people to think he is...
quote:
As VP Palin could be good and is a nice balance to McCain (age, gender, background - old/young, male/female, & military/mom), but as President, no one would believe in Palin! ...
The word 'no one' is innacurate. I think she would do a better job than Obama could ever do. And so do other people ive spoken with - so you cant say NO ONE because thats not true at all.
quote:
Plus, McCain has to now deal with attacks from all sides about the inexperience of Palin and the completely odd-ball, left field choice. Stability from guys like Romney and Pawlenty, etc. would have more likely won the campaign, despite not necessarily providing an intriguing balance that Palin does.
McCain dosent have to deal with anything. Its obvious the democrats and the media would try to dig up everything they can on her and that they would try to run her into the ground at every given moment. Its called politics. And unfortunately some Americans take right to the junk they feed them.
quote:
(Also, I have a weird feeling McCain is trying to desparately appeal to women, who were Hillary supporters, to swing the advantage his way....but, in the end, I think it backfires....People will realize what is going on and also critique Palin's (in)experience and readiness to run the country in case McCain dies.)
I wish some people would stop saying that. lol
Hillary supporters like HILLARY. She is no Palin thats for sure. Palin is CLASSY. Hillary isnt. Nowhere close to it. The ones that vote because of Palin will be doing it because they like PALIN. And McCain. Period.
Good points! ...I never said my opinion was permanent....it's provisional, so I may agree with you if my analysis and further research yield new light onto these points.....
Thanks.
Ur welcome.
Ya know my grandpa lived till he was 87 - a few months shy of his 88th birthday. My grandma is 80 and still healthy as she can be, taking NO medication at all.
McCain could live until he is 100 or more. From what i know of he has no health problems at all.
I think a person should try to forget the speeches McCain and Obama make and focus on what they both believe in and what they dont. Focus on what they will focus on. And forget all the rest of the 'im the only one that can fix this Country' thing they pull out. Because we all know that no one but God can fix this place at this point.
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:35:40 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7875
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Ya know my grandpa lived till he was 87 - a few months shy of his 88th birthday. My grandma is 80 and still healthy as she can be, taking NO medication at all.
McCain could live until he is 100 or more. From what i know of he has no health problems at all.
I think a person should try to forget the speeches McCain and Obama make and focus on what they both believe in and what they dont. Focus on what they will focus on. And forget all the rest of the 'im the only one that can fix this Country' thing they pull out. Because we all know that no one but God can fix this place at this point.
I think the person with the most to say about his potential longevity is his mother.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:37:54 PM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Ya know my grandpa lived till he was 87 - a few months shy of his 88th birthday. My grandma is 80 and still healthy as she can be, taking NO medication at all.
McCain could live until he is 100 or more. From what i know of he has no health problems at all.
I think a person should try to forget the speeches McCain and Obama make and focus on what they both believe in and what they dont. Focus on what they will focus on. And forget all the rest of the 'im the only one that can fix this Country' thing they pull out. Because we all know that no one but God can fix this place at this point.
I think the person with the most to say about his potential longevity is his mother.
Thats wonderful!
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:41:49 PM
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LivingParadox
Posts: 804
Joined: 2/28/2007
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So Obama had more experience than Hillary. I didn't vote for Hillary because of the issues not because she was a woman -- kind of a double standard there going on the experience arguement considering Obama won the nomination over a more experienced female with virtually the same stand on the issues.
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:42:22 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 523
Joined: 8/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Ur welcome.
Ya know my grandpa lived till he was 87 - a few months shy of his 88th birthday. My grandma is 80 and still healthy as she can be, taking NO medication at all.
McCain could live until he is 100 or more. From what i know of he has no health problems at all.
I think a person should try to forget the speeches McCain and Obama make and focus on what they both believe in and what they dont. Focus on what they will focus on. And forget all the rest of the 'im the only one that can fix this Country' thing they pull out. Because we all know that no one but God can fix this place at this point.
I do think that there's too much attention on speeches and public persona and charisma, etc.
We need to look at each man's heart, convictions, history/record, and actual politics.
Sometimes I feel the media made Obama a rock star that clouds people's minds.
As for health problems, I read somewhere McCain had a lot of problems, but am not sure if it's accurate (it was on a forum from a poster)......
But I guess, even so, that should not make us not vote for him just because of that.
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:49:57 PM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 523
Joined: 8/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LivingParadox
So Obama had more experience than Hillary. I didn't vote for Hillary because of the issues not because she was a woman -- kind of a double standard there going on the experience arguement considering Obama won the nomination over a more experienced female with virtually the same stand on the issues.
I liked Hillary better than Obama and McCain. But what I said earlier was regardless of whether Obama had enough experience or not, Palin should not be made as a comparison...she has to stand on her own in her own analysis.
Does Palin have experience? Do we know anything about her over a period of time to think she can do this job: i.) With agreeable politics and moral philosophy; ii.) With experience/talent/ability; iii.) Better than the other potential running mates.
I think I would same Palin may have better politics and moral philosphy than the other guys like Romney, Pawlenty, etc. and possibly do an equal or better job in Washington......but she simply does not have the past experience to back it up yet.
I guess this is a question of can her potential outweigh her flaws in experience....And is that better than taking the other candidates for VP? I think we can make the argument yes. But for some, it's still scary. And I think many will not vote for McCain because of the typical reasons of inexperience and McCain possibly dying and Palin being Pres.
I'm not saying I agree with the crowd...but I think a lot of people think that way....
I might be wrong though.
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 5:55:57 PM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Ur welcome.
Ya know my grandpa lived till he was 87 - a few months shy of his 88th birthday. My grandma is 80 and still healthy as she can be, taking NO medication at all.
McCain could live until he is 100 or more. From what i know of he has no health problems at all.
I think a person should try to forget the speeches McCain and Obama make and focus on what they both believe in and what they dont. Focus on what they will focus on. And forget all the rest of the 'im the only one that can fix this Country' thing they pull out. Because we all know that no one but God can fix this place at this point.
I do think that there's too much attention on speeches and public persona and charisma, etc.
We need to look at each man's heart, convictions, history/record, and actual politics.
Sometimes I feel the media made Obama a rock star that clouds people's minds.
As for health problems, I read somewhere McCain had a lot of problems, but am not sure if it's accurate (it was on a forum from a poster)......
But I guess, even so, that should not make us not vote for him just because of that.
Oh yes - absolutely true. People get caught up in the hype. I know because it happened to me too. When the primaries came around to my state i voted for Obama - that was BEFORE i really learned what he stood for. I regret doing so, but he wouldve won this state in the Primaries anyways, even without my vote.
I was caught up in his speeches and 'promises'. Now i see the error of my ways. Youre right. You have to look at a mans heart. And after that debate/interview with Warren between the two - that sealed my vote for McCain.
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 6:01:47 PM
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LivingParadox
Posts: 804
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
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Yes, you could be wrong.
She has excelled as a leader, reformer, communicator, businesswoman and has more experience than Obama. If you don't agree with her on the issues, say that, but your arguement about her experience doesn't hold water unless you want to write off Obama too for "lack" of experience. Sarah Palin is a game-changer ....of course you don't like the kind of "change" she represents.
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RE: Palin Destroys McCain's Chance for Victory - 9/1/2008 6:07:48 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
If you don't agree with her on the issues, say that,
Apparently she doesnt agree with her self on the issues either.
A pregnant teen from a social conservative?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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