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Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/5/2008 6:37:20 PM
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cgruita
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We have in our church an electric piano, which also is used as piano (as opposed to organ, which I am sure would be possible).
For me it sounds artificial (and, honestly, a bit worldly).
And it doesn't fit to the hymns.
And, the piano players tend to forget that they are no soloists.
In my opinion, they should only maintain the tune (not the rhythm -that is what the "conductor" should do, not even slightly improvise - this is not jazz)
I remember 10 years ago we had an organ (different church, though, more conservative) and it sounded much better.
Since I haven't prayed about it, I never raised this problem at all.
Do you think I'm overreacting?
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/5/2008 7:00:40 PM
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MusicianDad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cgruita
We have in our church an electric piano, which also is used as piano (as opposed to organ, which I am sure would be possible).
For me it sounds artificial (and, honestly, a bit worldly).
And it doesn't fit to the hymns.
Funny, but I can't find anything in the Bible to back up your opinion there.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cgruita
And, the piano players tend to forget that they are no soloists.
In my opinion, they should only maintain the tune (not the rhythm -that is what the "conductor" should do, not even slightly improvise - this is not jazz)
Opinions on style are nice and all that, but that's really all they are: opinions on style. There's no morality to the choice of having a soloist or choosing not to have one, for that matter. Worship is a matter of the heart, not instumentation, musical genre, or the color of the choir's vestments.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cgruita Do you think I'm overreacting?
Big time. Could come off as legalistic and catty too, but that's just an opinion.
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/5/2008 7:24:49 PM
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cgruita
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Thank you for your answer
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/5/2008 7:29:21 PM
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cgruita
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Now I know what catty means (looked it up)
I guess I need to repent of that.
Maybe I am, like you say, catty.
I surely appreciate their time and effort in serving God in the church (not meant as an excuse)
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/5/2008 7:41:48 PM
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MusicianDad
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Yeah, I happen to hate tambourines, or at least the way they're played 99.9% of the time. It's because they sound terrible (in my opinion), not because there's anything un-Christian about bad percussion. I think if we were able to hear the music that the first century church sang and played, many of us would have our ideas of "spiritual" music altered.
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/5/2008 7:54:18 PM
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cgruita
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:) I don't hate the piano.
My primary "concern" is that it does not sound properly.
I'm thinking of singing (as a church) "Rock of ages" accompanied by an organ as opposed to piano.
But I got your point and, quite frankly, I don't intend to argue with you (or anyone else, for that matter)
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/5/2008 8:03:39 PM
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MusicianDad
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I like piano and organ, but often acoustic piano can sound muddy or just gets lost in the mix. My favorite is the sound of a B3. It's very moody and really cuts through the mix.
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/5/2008 8:11:42 PM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cgruita
For me it sounds artificial (and, honestly, a bit worldly).
Any electric piano is going to sound artificial.
I'd also say that if you think an electric piano sounds "worldly" then you don't really know what "worldly" is.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MusicianDad
Yeah, I happen to hate tambourines, or at least the way they're played 99.9% of the time. It's because they sound terrible (in my opinion), not because there's anything un-Christian about bad percussion. I think if we were able to hear the music that the first century church sang and played, many of us would have our ideas of "spiritual" music altered.
Tambourines can be cool IF (IF) they're done well. Unfortunately, most middle-aged church folks and most singers' girlfriends don't qualify.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/5/2008 8:36:33 PM
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MusicianDad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Tambourines can be cool IF (IF) they're done well. Unfortunately, most middle-aged church folks and most singers' girlfriends don't qualify.
-Dan.
Sure, but the last time one was played well was during the Carter administration. 
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/5/2008 10:40:34 PM
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markb77
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MusicianDad
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Tambourines can be cool IF (IF) they're done well. Unfortunately, most middle-aged church folks and most singers' girlfriends don't qualify.
-Dan.
Sure, but the last time one was played well was during the Carter administration.
Personally, I think you have to look back even further than that - to one David Jones of the Monkees. Now THAT was some tambourine playing.
As far as the original post, my church uses all three (organ, piano, and electric keyboard), and the piano - a 9 (?) foot Yamaha grand - sounds better than any of them. It's one of the sweetest instruments I've ever played, and we wouldn't trade it for anything. The organ is a piece of junk which is next on the list to be replaced. All a matter of tase, I think.
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/6/2008 8:42:42 AM
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uncabeeil
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quote:
My primary "concern" is that it does not sound properly. Ha! I remember hearing the same exact thing when I was a kid. This was back in the late 60's and early 70's about acoustic guitars. This was in a very old fashioned and conservative Catholic church, and the pastor considered guitars an insult to the music. He also thought it made the music sound "too much like that rock and roll stuff"(the 60's version of "worldly").
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/6/2008 11:12:42 AM
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MusicianDad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: uncabeeil
quote:
My primary "concern" is that it does not sound properly. Ha! I remember hearing the same exact thing when I was a kid. This was back in the late 60's and early 70's about acoustic guitars. This was in a very old fashioned and conservative Catholic church, and the pastor considered guitars an insult to the music. He also thought it made the music sound "too much like that rock and roll stuff"(the 60's version of "worldly").
It's funny how some people want to back up their opinion with some kind of imagined spiritual weightiness. I think keytars are retarded. I think they're an insult to any music. It's an opinion, and not even a particularly reasonable one, but one I'm willing to go straight to the mat over. Even so, I don't try to invoke God on the issue, or say we're all going straight to hell if we don't shun this horrific instrument.
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/6/2008 1:09:48 PM
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DaveW
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How a certain instrument sounds is probably more a function of the person playing than the instrument itself. To be sure, there are many "piano" patches I do not like the sound of at all, but that is just my own ear trying to compare it to a full grand. Even good uprights don't make it in that sense. But I do not think that is the issue for you. Are you a musician yourself?
If you do not like the way the electric sounds on hymns, I would bet you would have a similar complaint if they were playing the same thing on a grand piano as well. It is all in the style of play.
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Anecdote: A few months ago I attended the funeral of my MIL. It was held at a Church of the Nazorean in Lansing MI. A very close friend of her played the piano, many hymns before and after the service. I am a musician, my wife is a pianist and her sister is also. I commented to my SIL about the lady playing, how I had not heard that style of piano in probably a couple of decades. It was a pure Southern Gospel style from the 50s-60s. Very complex jazz chord structure that I find influencing some of my own compositions and playing style. To me it just sounds like "church."
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/6/2008 1:36:21 PM
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gtrdave
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cgruita
:) I don't hate the piano.
My primary "concern" is that it does not sound properly.
I'm thinking of singing (as a church) "Rock of ages" accompanied by an organ as opposed to piano.
But I got your point and, quite frankly, I don't intend to argue with you (or anyone else, for that matter)
You're applying a cultural relevance to the music style of worship.
While this is nothing new...we've gone from monophonic chants to polyphonic hymns, from lute, lyre and cymbal to piano/organ to rock band, from singing in Latin to singing in any language that is relative to the local cultures...it is dangerous when we try to put a label on what we think is the "right way" to worship and the "wrong way" to worship.
There's nothing wrong with you or anyone having an opinion regarding what they prefer in regards to music or instrumental style. That's natural.
There is something wrong with having that opinion rule over what God defines as worship, which has little to nothing to do with music.
Yet I digress...if you like organ-backed hymns over piano-backed hymns then that's what you prefer.
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/6/2008 3:21:42 PM
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cgruita
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Are you a musician yourself?
No, I just play the guitar (no musician)
quote:
If you do not like the way the electric sounds on hymns, I would bet you would have a similar complaint if they were playing the same thing on a grand piano as well.
Maybe, but the comparison was between electric piano and organ
Thx for the reply.
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/6/2008 3:25:39 PM
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cgruita
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gtrdave
it is dangerous when we try to put a label on what we think is the "right way" to worship and the "wrong way" to worship.
I agree with that.
But would it be ok to ask why switch from organ to piano? (electric or not)
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/6/2008 3:40:35 PM
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MusicianDad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cgruita
But would it be ok to ask why switch from organ to piano? (electric or not)
Probably depends on your relationship to the musician you ask, and your tone in asking. Sometimes when non-musicians get critical of those on the worship team, it's not received all that well. It's kind of like a new Christian asking the Pastor to stop preaching on Romans and concentrate on Noah and the ark or something.
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/6/2008 4:07:22 PM
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gtrdave
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cgruita
quote:
ORIGINAL: gtrdave
it is dangerous when we try to put a label on what we think is the "right way" to worship and the "wrong way" to worship.
I agree with that.
But would it be ok to ask why switch from organ to piano? (electric or not)
I don't see a problem with asking that question.
I recognize the difference in style between the organ and the piano just as I recognize the difference in style between the acoustic guitar and the electric guitar. While similar in some ways, they're slightly different instruments that require slightly different techniques and reproduce sound slightly differently.
Regardless, someone whom is skilled to play any of the above, in my opinion, will not make you miss whatever instrument it is that they're not playing.
I've heard folks on solo guitar or piano play in ways that, for lack of better words, out-perform a full ensemble and vice versa.
If the player is not skilled, it matters little what they stick their hands on.
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/7/2008 7:23:41 AM
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MusicianDad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
I did not notice until I had taken enough organ lessons to sit in and play once that they were almost a quarter tone out of tune with each other..... 
Ouch!
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/7/2008 8:46:24 PM
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dbmurray
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I am a church music director. We use both piano and organ for congregational hymn singing. I like that combination.
I would never limit the pianist to the notes printed on the page. If there's a dotted half or a whole note at the end of a phrase, I want the piano player to add rhythm, so that the forward motion of the singing doesn't stall. This is especially an issue if you have a song in 6/4 time that sustains a chord at the end of a phrase for six beats...the song dies if nothing happens in that period of time.
In ideal congregational hymn singing, the SINGERS follow the printed notes strictly, the organist connects notes (legato) smoothly adding full sounding bass notes, and the pianist propels the rhythm by adding chords and fills.
The director's job is to establish the tempo and encourage robust singing. The conductor can do little about the rhythm (unless he snaps his fingers or throws in a "2-3-4" at the end of a phrase).
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/11/2008 5:08:34 PM
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wbporter
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This is not a "one size fits all" situation. It depends on the music being played, the type of worship service it is, and preference of the director and/or soloist.
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/13/2008 3:15:29 PM
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cgruita
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Thank you all for your replies, guys ;)
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RE: Organ vs. piano in the church - 11/14/2008 2:47:38 PM
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saramitch85
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It's interesting to see everyone opinions and advice.
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