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Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/4/2008 6:28:23 PM
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solomonsprayer
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I heard a woman on Hannity (last week I think) say Obama must've been a terrible community organizer to have not known about Rev. Jeremiah Wright's fanaticism until 20 years later or William Ayer's background or Tony Rezko, etc. ...How could he be organizing a community and not know these things? Obama seems to say he nver knew things every time something controversial comes up. But how can he not know?
I guess it could be possible, but if you're a community organizer, that's interesting.
I just thought this was an interesting line.
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/11/2008 6:46:23 PM
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solomonsprayer
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Would it be fair to say that either Obama was a bad community organizer or a liar using the above logic?
Or the third option is that he told the truth and was a good community organizer honestly not knowing about Rev. Wright's views until much later. And that he didn't know about Tony Rezko's slum lord crimes when he made the "sweet-heart" real estate deal with him when he bought his house. And that he didn't know about Ayers' background and views at the time he accepted money for his campaign, hung out at his house, and served on the Woods Fund with him.
I guess I'm still trying to figure these things out post-election (sad I know...). I feel like the media never really made these things clear and investigated them.
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/11/2008 7:00:21 PM
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EStan
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I'm still not completely clear on what it is exactly that a community organizer does - except 'get out the vote'.
quote:
I feel like the media never really made these things clear and investigated them.
That's because the liberal media's only goal was to get Obama into the White House, period. Anything that stood in the way of that achievement was to be snuffed out immediately.
_____________________________
Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/11/2008 7:07:40 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EStan
I'm still not completely clear on what it is exactly that a community organizer does - except 'get out the vote'.
quote:
I feel like the media never really made these things clear and investigated them.
That's because the liberal media's only goal was to get Obama into the White House, period. Anything that stood in the way of that achievement was to be snuffed out immediately.
Well, as a community organizer, he was responsible for informing/educating those who were disenfranchised in society about their rights to vote and on issues that affected them. I believe this is what he did in working with the poor on the streets of Chicago and trying ot understand their unheard voices/needs and advocating ways to help them (part of that involving getting them involved in the political process and voting). I am not 100% sure either, but I think that's what it mostly involved.
My question, though, was if he was a community organizer...was he a bad one, given he did not know the prominent people of his community and their backgrounds? Or was he a liar? Or was he honestly unaware by coincidence? That was just a nagging question I had from the elections that never seeemed answered and that the mainstream media didn't seem to investigate deeply into (with both facts and ethical/moral analysis).
Maybe others know more?
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/11/2008 7:58:05 PM
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earthless
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Better known to those in the know as 'community agitators.'
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/11/2008 11:28:49 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Better known to those in the know as 'community agitators.'
Well, that can be taken several ways....I think "agitator" is the critical view of community organizing, whereas some would say Martin Luther King, Jr.'s activism was revolutionary and positive.
I am not an expert on community organizing, but I do know churches are somtimes involved so there is probably a "good" kind and a "bad" kind. 
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/11/2008 11:46:24 PM
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Rockwall
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
I guess I'm still trying to figure these things out post-election (sad I know...). I feel like the media never really made these things clear and investigated them.
I believe the media spent more time researching Palin's wardrobe expenses than Obama's past. They just went to factcheck.org, copied and pasted what they wrote about Obama and ayers and the rest and that was the extent of their "research" on his past.
_____________________________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/11/2008 11:57:49 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
I guess I'm still trying to figure these things out post-election (sad I know...). I feel like the media never really made these things clear and investigated them.
I believe the media spent more time researching Palin's wardrobe expenses than Obama's past. They just went to factcheck.org, copied and pasted what they wrote about Obama and ayers and the rest and that was the extent of their "research" on his past.
It's so weird. I'm STILL just now trying to sort through all that happened. I still feel like the media missed so many critical issues about Obama's past ....it's like a political whirlwind blew thorugh and I still don't know who Obama is, lol. Is he who the mainstream media says he is or is the "other" stuff about him a darker side? Is the "other" stuff a misrepresentation of Obama? ...What is the complete real man? That was one of the things I wondered so long and even now as he leads the U.S.
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/12/2008 8:32:19 AM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
My question, though, was if he was a community organizer...was he a bad one, given he did not know the prominent people of his community and their backgrounds? Or was he a liar? Or was he honestly unaware by coincidence? That was just a nagging question I had from the elections that never seeemed answered and that the mainstream media didn't seem to investigate deeply into (with both facts and ethical/moral analysis). He wasn't so much a community organizer as much as he was a man who had a plan. That plan was to get in with the "correct" crowd in Chicago to endorse and further a political career. His choice of Wright's church was a prime example of that. It wasn't chosen based on theology, it was chosen based on the connections he was able to make while a member of it. Same with his relationship with Ayers, southside politics went through his home, so the man who has become our President went through that home also, knowing full well what he was doing. His being a community organizer was just his first step in his plan.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/12/2008 10:54:04 AM
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relady
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quote:
Better known to those in the know as 'community agitators.' Of course! Because it be just so much more pleasant if those poor and disenfranchised would just shut up and stay where they belong. Of course they agitate. If community organizers hadn't "agitated" in the 60s civil rights would never have been achieved. They aren't going to just shut up and behave to make life easier for you. Nor should they. I would say your comment is one of the primary reasons they shouldn't.
quote:
He wasn't so much a community organizer as much as he was a man who had a plan. That plan was to get in with the "correct" crowd in Chicago to endorse and further a political career. His choice of Wright's church was a prime example of that. It wasn't chosen based on theology, it was chosen based on the connections he was able to make while a member of it. Same with his relationship with Ayers, southside politics went through his home, so the man who has become our President went through that home also, knowing full well what he was doing. His being a community organizer was just his first step in his plan. I don't believe this at all. Do you have something to back this up or is it just your opinion? And even if it is partially or mostly true, it shows ambition and initiative, both good qualities.
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/12/2008 11:07:57 AM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
I don't believe this at all. Do you have something to back this up or is it just your opinion? And even if it is partially or mostly true, it shows ambition and initiative, both good qualities. Yes indeed, it does in fact show ambition. That we do agree on. You may believe what you wish from your own observations. I state my opinions based on my own observations.
quote:
Of course! Because it be just so much more pleasant if those poor and disenfranchised would just shut up and stay where they belong. Of course they agitate. If community organizers hadn't "agitated" in the 60s civil rights would never have been achieved. They aren't going to just shut up and behave to make life easier for you. Nor should they. I would say your comment is one of the primary reasons they shouldn't. If it hadn't of been for "agitators" the civil rights movement wouldn't have happened? The poor and disenfranchised had no say in demanding their equal rights? What observation had you seen to see that they couldn't speak up and act on their own?
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/12/2008 11:37:42 AM
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P31W
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quote:
He wasn't so much a community organizer as much as he was a man who had a plan. That plan was to get in with the "correct" crowd in Chicago to endorse and further a political career. His choice of Wright's church was a prime example of that. It wasn't chosen based on theology, it was chosen based on the connections he was able to make while a member of it. Same with his relationship with Ayers, southside politics went through his home, so the man who has become our President went through that home also, knowing full well what he was doing. His being a community organizer was just his first step in his plan
Stamper that is EXACTLY what many of his supporters say is true as well. Otherwise they would have to call him stupid. What is so funny to me is that they admit he is dishonest and they honestly expect a "tax cut" or "help" from Obama. Why don't they just admit it was a lie to get their vote?
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/12/2008 11:46:50 AM
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P31W
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quote:
Well, that can be taken several ways....I think "agitator" is the critical view of community organizing, whereas some would say Martin Luther King, Jr.'s activism was revolutionary and positive.
I am not an expert on community organizing, but I do know churches are somtimes involved so there is probably a "good" kind and a "bad" kind.
James Cone the modern day founder of Black Liberation Theology and what is taught at Trinity for 20 years to Obama and wife and children is that for freedom to be achieved violence is unavoidable.
(Never compare what MLK taught with what Obama's church teaches)
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/12/2008 2:04:48 PM
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relady
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quote:
The poor and disenfranchised had no say in demanding their equal rights? What observation had you seen to see that they couldn't speak up and act on their own? I lived through the 60s and watched how it came about. And I've studied it in retrospect. Had it not been for the violence the civil rights act would most likely never have been signed and it would have taken longer than it did to get equal rights. To be sure, MLK, Jr. to his credit, never outright called for violence, but when people are denied rights and frustrated over discrimination, which the offending party does not change on its own, then violence is an inevitable outcome.
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/12/2008 2:43:47 PM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
The poor and disenfranchised had no say in demanding their equal rights? What observation had you seen to see that they couldn't speak up and act on their own? I lived through the 60s and watched how it came about. And I've studied it in retrospect. Had it not been for the violence the civil rights act would most likely never have been signed and it would have taken longer than it did to get equal rights. To be sure, MLK, Jr. to his credit, never outright called for violence, but when people are denied rights and frustrated over discrimination, which the offending party does not change on its own, then violence is an inevitable outcome.
And was it the agitators, the "community activists" of the Obama ilk, who perpetuated the violence in which whole sections of communities all across the country rose up in anger?
I too was there during the 60's, I saw the riots not 300 feet from my front door at the time. Although the charge of "outside agitators" was common, they weren't. The "community organizing" that Obama did had nothing to do with anyone but himself getting anything, and that was connections to further his own self.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/13/2008 12:29:56 AM
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solomonsprayer
Posts: 866
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
He wasn't so much a community organizer as much as he was a man who had a plan. That plan was to get in with the "correct" crowd in Chicago to endorse and further a political career. His choice of Wright's church was a prime example of that. It wasn't chosen based on theology, it was chosen based on the connections he was able to make while a member of it. Same with his relationship with Ayers, southside politics went through his home, so the man who has become our President went through that home also, knowing full well what he was doing. His being a community organizer was just his first step in his plan
Stamper that is EXACTLY what many of his supporters say is true as well. Otherwise they would have to call him stupid. What is so funny to me is that they admit he is dishonest and they honestly expect a "tax cut" or "help" from Obama. Why don't they just admit it was a lie to get their vote?
Which supporters have said Obama is dishonest? I'm curious about that point, because it was written kind of vaguely. Thanks!
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RE: Obama A Bad Community Organizer? - 11/13/2008 12:41:45 AM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
My question, though, was if he was a community organizer...was he a bad one, given he did not know the prominent people of his community and their backgrounds? Or was he a liar? Or was he honestly unaware by coincidence? That was just a nagging question I had from the elections that never seeemed answered and that the mainstream media didn't seem to investigate deeply into (with both facts and ethical/moral analysis). He wasn't so much a community organizer as much as he was a man who had a plan. That plan was to get in with the "correct" crowd in Chicago to endorse and further a political career. His choice of Wright's church was a prime example of that. It wasn't chosen based on theology, it was chosen based on the connections he was able to make while a member of it. Same with his relationship with Ayers, southside politics went through his home, so the man who has become our President went through that home also, knowing full well what he was doing. His being a community organizer was just his first step in his plan.
This is a common accusation about Obama, but I sometimes wish we had concrete facts. I think we need ot be careful in what we say about someone's faith and church. I certainly have issues with some of the things said by Pastor Jeremiah Wright and there have been "interesting" accusations about Obama's motives for attending Trinity United for purely political reasons, but even if that wre the case, it doesn't mean that he did not later have a genuine Christian conversion or some other spiritual experience. I am curious about the evidence for Obama's using Trinity for political purposes.
If that was the case, it would in fact be a perversion of religion and very sad. I think it is possible he may have started out that way but possibly later came to have genuine spiritual interest, but I cannot say and do not know.
I hope it was not just part of his agenda for political power. I hope and pray that was/is not the case.
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