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Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 11:29:13 AM
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Agahnim
Posts: 221
Joined: 2/27/2008
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I know this isn’t the official “introduction” section of these boards, but since most of the people from my evolution community who are joining this forum will just be interested in discussing science here, I think this is the best place for an introduction thread.
So, newcomers from Domain of Darwin: this is the place to tell everyone who you are, especially if you’re posting under using a different username here from the one you use in my community. I’m sure everyone knows who I am, since I’m using the same username in both places.
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"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." --Mahatma Gandhi
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 11:57:16 AM
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Agahnim
Posts: 221
Joined: 2/27/2008
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quote:
It might be a good idea to remind your newcomer friends to read the Terms of Service, in case they have any questions.
The forum already makes people read the TOS and select that they agree to them when they’re registering, so I don’t think there’s a danger of any of the new members being unaware of them.
_____________________________
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." --Mahatma Gandhi
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 11:58:46 AM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11462
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
New folks -
Welcome to Forums!
We do not require that you be an orthodox Christian to be a member of the site, but we do require that you respect our Terms of Service, especially TOS #15.
You may want to read our Range of Doctrine and our Statement of Faith.
Repeated statements against these documents and TOS 15 will result in disciplinary action against your account here.
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Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 1:48:07 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7879
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
He's also the only one in here that knows anything substantive about Intelligent Design.
I appreciate that cow, though I fear in the eyes of most evolutionists that is the equivalent of, 'He's also the only one in here that knows anything substantive about Santa Claus'.
Just thought I would say it first before any newcomers get the idea.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 1:48:28 PM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Oh, and DoD members should note the brief bio I am given there. Apparently I am 'not ignorant' but 'unable to process certain lines of reasoning' and am therefore difficult to convert to Darwinism - unlike others on this site, apparently.
But you have to address me none the less, because, according to DoD I hold sway over the more weak minded members of Crosswalk, and pointing out flaws in my arguments are the key to converting them.
Oh, and I am a big meanie - so beware. 
I just read it too, lol. I didn't catch where it said you held sway over anyone though. I thought it simply said you were one of the most active and therefore somewhat of a "backbone" of the anti-evolution camp here.
Here's the excerpt quote:
ORIGINAL: Agahnim
The other members who I think deserves to be mentioned posts there as Jhud. Strictly speaking, Jhud is not a creationist, since he doesn’t think Genesis must be taken literally and doesn’t believe the account of creation there. What he is is a proponent of “Intelligent Design”, who believes the arguments by people such as Michael Behe that evolution is not capable of explaining certain biological structures. The reason Jhud deserves mention is because as of my last participation in that forum, he is by far the most active anti-evolution member there, so much so that he deserves a large portion of the credit for the general anti-evolution environment there.
Like Raptorman, Jhud is not ignorant—according to him, he was a biology major in college, and he knows as much about it as much as one would expect of someone who studied it there. However, during my debates with him, he has seemed unable to process certain lines of reasoning. The example of this that which has come up most often is that he does not consider it to have been demonstrated that evolution is capable of explaining all of life’s diversity, because nobody has ever directly observed the evolution of a highly complex system (such as an entire new organ) from start to finish. My response to this has consistently been that even though nobody has observed this entire process, scientists have observed each individual part of the process happening separately, and saying that these parts are capable of working together in such a manner is no different than predicting any other unobserved event that results from several known processes occurring together, such as the formation of a black hole.
I don’t expect it to be possible to change Jhud’s mind about this, but pointing out the flaws in these claims is valuable to other members of the forum who are more open-minded. Raptorman is not the only participant there who I think has a good chance of accepting evolution eventually. As long as you’re patient and explain things clearly, members of this community who decide to post at this month’s featured forum might be able to accomplish the same thing with any of a few others there.
So sorry to say it but to the original poster, I laughed out loud at the "I'm sure you all know who I am" line because at first I thought you were saying that to everyone here. I think I realize now you're saying it to members of your own site so it makes a bit more sense.
Either way, welcome.
Oh and I wouldn't say Jhud is unable to process certain lines of reasoning. He's simply unwilling.
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 1:54:40 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7879
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
Oh and I wouldn't say Jhud is unable to process certain lines of reasoning. He's simply unwilling.
Not ignorant, just stubborn.
By the way, I was an evolutionist long before a number of you could say 'transitional form' - so that information has been processed and found lacking.
And to be clearer still, I am not an evolution opponent, I am a critic of evolution - I don't dismiss it whole hog. For example I think it does a great job of explaining how extant structures and systems might be optimized. I think it is lacking in terms of explaining the generation of many novel structures and systems.
And there are many biologists who are beginning to be critical as well; the word just hasn't gotten out to the evolutionary masses.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 2:00:12 PM
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EStan
Posts: 453
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline
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I certainly hope Agahnim's good friend RaptorArts shows up for some vibrant discussion. I'm very curious to learn more about someone who, in response to the question "Have you ever convinced a creationist of evolution," says this:
quote:
So far no luck. Those religious creationist types are so thick headed they would rather stick a pitchfork through your heart and burn you at the stake than believe in science. Hence why I hate religion and people who push it on us.
Hmmmm....
_____________________________
Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 3:18:17 PM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EStan
I certainly hope Agahnim's good friend RaptorArts shows up for some vibrant discussion. I'm very curious to learn more about someone who, in response to the question "Have you ever convinced a creationist of evolution," says this:
quote:
So far no luck. Those religious creationist types are so thick headed they would rather stick a pitchfork through your heart and burn you at the stake than believe in science. Hence why I hate religion and people who push it on us.
Hmmmm....
Sounds exactly like much of what is said around here about "evolutionists" and their refusal to believe in creation.
At least Agahnim has made a call for keeping the ad hominem to a minimum and simply teaching people here about evolution. It is very true that many who fully accept evolution do not know the first thing about it really. So we could all stand to learn before we decide.
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 3:53:27 PM
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EStan
Posts: 453
Joined: 7/27/2005
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quote:
Sounds exactly like much of what is said around here about "evolutionists" and their refusal to believe in creation.
Sorry, that dog don't hunt. Promoting any type of violent behavior like that in these forums would be dealt with by the moderators very quickly.
_____________________________
Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 3:55:48 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1367
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Oh, and DoD members should note the brief bio I am given there. Apparently I am 'not ignorant' but 'unable to process certain lines of reasoning' and am therefore difficult to convert to Darwinism - unlike others on this site, apparently.
Oh yes, the typical Darwinist fallacy that anyone who disagrees with them must misunderstand something (either intentionally or unintentionally).
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 3:59:06 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1367
Joined: 4/17/2005
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: RaptorArts
So far no luck. Those religious creationist types are so thick headed they would rather stick a pitchfork through your heart and burn you at the stake than believe in science. Hence why I hate religion and people who push it on us.
I suggest you (plural) keep that kind of language out of here. However, it perfectly demonstrates the hatred that many evolutionists have against anyone that disagrees with them to the point that they go so far as to make blatantly false and inappropriate accusations against creationists.
< Message edited by Bettawrekonize -- 8/4/2008 9:07:29 PM >
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 4:05:50 PM
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EStan
Posts: 453
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: wayward1
So far no luck. Those religious creationist types are so thick headed they would rather stick a pitchfork through your heart and burn you at the stake than believe in science. Hence why I hate religion and people who push it on us.
I suggest you keep that kind of language out of here. However, it perfectly demonstrates the hatred that many evolutionists have against anyone that disagrees with them to the point that they go so far as to make blatantly false and inappropriate accusations against creationists.
In wayward's defense, betta, it wasn't he that made that statement. It was from the Domain of Darwin's website.
_____________________________
Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 4:09:45 PM
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jmjphe
Posts: 78
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline
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man i wish i knew more about modern sciences so i could talk more in these threads!
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 4:20:51 PM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EStan
quote:
Sounds exactly like much of what is said around here about "evolutionists" and their refusal to believe in creation.
Sorry, that dog don't hunt. Promoting any type of violent behavior like that in these forums would be dealt with by the moderators very quickly.
edit: actually, on re-reading it I suppose the "hate" language wouldn't be tolerated. I've seen what creationists get away with around here though, and there is a double standard... That's all I was really getting at.
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 4:22:49 PM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: NOT wayward1
So far no luck. Those religious creationist types are so thick headed they would rather stick a pitchfork through your heart and burn you at the stake than believe in science. Hence why I hate religion and people who push it on us.
I suggest you keep that kind of language out of here. However, it perfectly demonstrates the hatred that many evolutionists have against anyone that disagrees with them to the point that they go so far as to make blatantly false and inappropriate accusations against creationists.
Now that someone has informed you that you got the wrong guy would you please edit your original post where it says "wayward1" was the one who said creationists would rather put a pitchfork through your heart and burn you at the stake than believe in science.
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 4:26:40 PM
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HHV5
Posts: 159
Joined: 7/20/2008
Status: offline
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I was excited for a second.
DoD =/= Department of Defense
Darn.
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 4:40:57 PM
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EStan
Posts: 453
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wayward1
quote:
ORIGINAL: EStan
quote:
Sounds exactly like much of what is said around here about "evolutionists" and their refusal to believe in creation.
Sorry, that dog don't hunt. Promoting any type of violent behavior like that in these forums would be dealt with by the moderators very quickly.
edit: actually, on re-reading it I suppose the "hate" language wouldn't be tolerated. I've seen what creationists get away with around here though, and there is a double standard... That's all I was really getting at.
What double-standard? This isn't a "free-for-all, anything goes" website, it's a Christian forum. As has been said before, you certainly don't have to be a Christian to participate in discussions, but there are rules.
Frankly, I think the moderators allow a lot more leeway in the S&O subforum than anywhere else, I'm sure primarily because they know discussions of evolution vs creation and origin of life debates are where the non-Christians are going to participate the most.
_____________________________
Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 5:19:43 PM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1367
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
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I guess I should have put it in double quotations. Fixed. It still demonstrates my point though.
quote:
edit: actually, on re-reading it I suppose the "hate" language wouldn't be tolerated.
On either side.
quote:
I've seen what creationists get away with around here though, and there is a double standard... That's all I was really getting at.
If a creationist uses that kind of language, he is likely to get banned as well.
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 6:21:33 PM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
I guess I should have put it in double quotations. Fixed. It still demonstrates my point though.
Well, I'm still confused. This is all that I said:
quote:
Sounds exactly like much of what is said around here about "evolutionists" and their refusal to believe in creation.
At least Agahnim has made a call for keeping the ad hominem to a minimum and simply teaching people here about evolution. It is very true that many who fully accept evolution do not know the first thing about it really. So we could all stand to learn before we decide.
That's the language I used and then you quoted someone else but said to me that I better keep that language off these boards. I'm sure this is all just a simple matter of confusion or mistaken identity or whatever but please read more carefully and notice that I've used no language whatsoever that needs to be kept off this site.
Now there's a quote floating around from where Estan quoted you and came to my defense. Those are not my words yet I am quoted as having said them. And they are very harsh. That's why I asked you to change it and you didn't change it enough. You don't need to warn me about my lauguage at all, and changing it to double quotes does not make it clear enough that that is not me talking.
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 6:29:42 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3159
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
At least Agahnim has made a call for keeping the ad hominem to a minimum and simply teaching people here about evolution. It is very true that many who fully accept evolution do not know the first thing about it really. So we could all stand to learn before we decide. There's really not much to teach, is there. Evolution (at least the nonsensical unified theory presented as fact in high school and college biology texts) has never, is not, and will never occur(ed, -ing)!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 6:47:47 PM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EStan
What double-standard? This isn't a "free-for-all, anything goes" website, it's a Christian forum.
Christians here constantly call neo-darwinism fantasy and so on.
I've had a post of mine deleted for making a generalization that included a reference to bronze age mysticism and superstition.
My post was deleted and considered disruptive and false teaching.
I would say in this context the three words, mysticism, fantasy and superstition, are effectively synonymous.
When used to describe Christianity they are deleted. When used to describe well established fields of scientific study they are allowed.
What is this if it's not a double standard? Watch and see if this post isn't deleted.
quote:
As has been said before, you certainly don't have to be a Christian to participate in discussions, but there are rules.
Yes and those rules are that you will not speak out against certain established truths. The fact that the people running this site establish those truths for themselves is where the double standard comes from. But then what would you expect from a "for profit" site?
quote:
Frankly, I think the moderators allow a lot more leeway in the S&O subforum than anywhere else, I'm sure primarily because they know discussions of evolution vs creation and origin of life debates are where the non-Christians are going to participate the most.
I actually think they do too.
< Message edited by wayward1 -- 8/4/2008 7:27:35 PM >
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RE: Newcomers from DoD - 8/4/2008 6:48:53 PM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
At least Agahnim has made a call for keeping the ad hominem to a minimum and simply teaching people here about evolution. It is very true that many who fully accept evolution do not know the first thing about it really. So we could all stand to learn before we decide. There's really not much to teach, is there. Evolution (at least the nonsensical unified theory presented as fact in high school and college biology texts) has never, is not, and will never occur(ed, -ing)!
false teaching and disruptive. TOS violation.
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