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Lords Prayer ? - 11/24/2008 6:56:20 PM
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Rotor
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Joined: 5/8/2007
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Could someone please explain, "Lead us not into temptation". Why would we be asking God not to do something He wills ?
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RE: Lords Prayer ? - 11/24/2008 7:09:49 PM
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LCannon
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From: Lebanon, OR
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'...This word lead gives us the wrong impression because James says God does not tempt any man. That is true—God does not tempt any man. A better translation here would be, "Don't leave us in the opportunity of temptation." It does not mean to keep us out of it but when we are in it were not to keep us there.'(J Vernon McGee)
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"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Lords Prayer ? - 11/25/2008 2:40:40 AM
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Bluethread
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Mt 6:13 KJV "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen."
It is interesting that the NIV appears to leave out the second half, while the KJV presents it as a couplet. The contrasting couplet(two lines that are similar in form but opposite in meaning) appears to be a rather common poetic tool of the writers of the Tanach(old testiment). It is possible that this is what Yeshua(Jesus) is doing here. He may be contrasting the dominon of the evil one, temptation, with kingdom of Adonai. Thus, this could be a poetic way of saying, "Keep me out of the devil's country, because Your kingdom is much better."
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Lords Prayer ? - 11/25/2008 9:38:45 AM
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DougHorton
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That would be an interesting interpretation, Bluethread, except that scholars disagree whether this second clause is even in the original, and the minor fact that the rest of the prayer does not follow that pattern. Luke does not include the second clause either.
As for McGee needing to actually change the verb to get an interpretation.... well let's just say that the Lord knows how to communicate better than any of us and He said exactly what He meant.
Scripture is best interpreted by scripture. Narrative passages are interpreted by didactic passages. Compare this request to 1Co 10:13 -
No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.
In the prayer, Jesus is reminding us that the Lord will not tempt us to sin, but that any temptation that does come our way is a testing to make us more faithful and cause us to turn back to Him. We should not read "lead us not into temptation" without adding "but deliver us from evil".
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Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Lords Prayer ? - 11/27/2008 3:14:27 PM
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DrIjames
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Hi, my name Is Dr. Jason Ijames, I would like to reply to your queston.
One, we need to understand taht this prayer is a "guide line" for prayer, like an outline, if you will. Jesus said,"in this manner "you should pray.
ther are many scriptures that I could use, but the Word does tell us that we should not be ignorant of the devils devices. The prayer is not implying that God would lead us into temptation, for the Bible says that God tempts no man. But if we look at the Garden of Gethsemane while Jesus was praying he asked Peter to pray with Him, so that he would not fall into temptation. Of course it is easy to understand why Peter slept. Here is a man that has spoken to the storms and they obeyed; He commanded the demons and raised the dead, yet now He is laying on His face crying out to the Father in tolal anguish. He was in so much turmoil that He even swetted blood from His pours. The desciples never had seen this side of Jesus. they were confussed and stressed. I f you have ever been in a very stressful situation you know that it makes us tired and just plain worn out. If Peter had been able to pray he would not have sinned!!!
Mat.26:40-41. He would not have cut the centurians ear off nor would he have denied Christ three times. I have many scriptures that underline this but I want to share this one more with you, Romans 8:1-2. I hope this helps, I do a series on prayer and the Lords prayer is the basis of my teaching on this subject. I can not put it all in this format, but will be glad to answer any questions. God is Good
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RE: Lords Prayer ? - 11/28/2008 7:58:25 AM
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OleFitzHi
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You are doing some deep thinking. You will come to know, love, and respect God more as a result of this thinking. This probably will not be covered in your average Sunday School class.
There are many such SEEMING contradictions in the Bible.
2 Chronicles 18:22 comes to mind immediately. There are more.
Don't let your faith be shaken. Remember God is supreme even over the sin of mankind. Nothing catches Him by surprise. Even our sins will work to bring glory to Him.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rotor
Could someone please explain, "Lead us not into temptation". Why would we be asking God not to do something He wills ?
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