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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 9:21:47 AM
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a-lily
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quote:
WARNING
Statements that those who are not keeping specific laws are in some way out of the will of God will be considered a violation of the Terms of Service.
Honest question, will statements about those of us that are trying to keep the law, are in some way out of Gods will, i.e.… legalist, also be a violation of the terms of service?
Shalom
Joy
< Message edited by a-lily -- 7/19/2005 10:11:30 AM >
_____________________________
"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." -Jesus Matthew 5 : 18
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 9:39:05 AM
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Jipsah
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I think what that means is that beating the tub for Sabbatarianism is a TOS violation.
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Sometimes he eats my friends but man he's cool"
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 9:47:07 AM
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a-lily
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I am sorry if this comes across as rude that is not the intent. But before I can participate in the discussion I have to be assured that it’s a fair and balanced debate.
In a discussion on the Law you will have those that believe it is wrong not to keep the Law and those who believe it is wrong to keep the Law. That is what make it a debate.
You cannot have a debate where one view is not allowed to be expressed.
Now to say one is condemned on whether or not they keep the Law is a big no, no, and quite a different thing from saying someone is out of “Gods will”.
God has a will and we all can be out of it from time to time, but that may or may not effect our eternity. No one should be able to say anything against another’s eternity, in this debate.
Thanks and
Shalom
Joy
_____________________________
"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." -Jesus Matthew 5 : 18
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 9:55:38 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2441
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Joy,
When you use the term "keep the law" what do you understand that to mean?
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 10:04:30 AM
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micah4
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From: The Lost City of the Ancients
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quote:
ORIGINAL: a-lily
quote:
WARNING
Statements that those who are not keeping specific laws are in some way out of the will of God will be considered a violation of the Terms of Service.
Honest question, will statements about those of us that are trying to keep the law, are in some way out of Gods will, i.e.… legalist, also be a violation of the terms of service?
Shalom
Joy
I echo Joy's request for a balanced and equitable standard.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 11:04:10 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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Please click on the report link at the bottom right of any post you feel violates the Terms of Service.
The post will be reviewed and action will be taken.
That's all I will say unless you give me a clear example.
Expect this thread to be moderated just the same as all the other One Stop threads.
I will not force anyone to engage in this topic. Everyone does so at their own risk and understanding that violations will be dealt with aggressively.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 11:24:35 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
WARNING
Statements that those who are not keeping specific laws are in some way out of the will of God will be considered a violation of the Terms of Service.
I find this a bit worisome. If I were to say that someone committing adultery was out of God's will, that is a TOS violation?
How about that the Law is still in effect for Jews?
What about the 4 commands of Acts 15?
Are these all to be counted as TOS violations?
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 11:46:38 AM
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rockv12
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Sorry, but now I'm really afraid to speak in here. I almost feel like my Christian freedom has been taken away for we can't speak what we believe to be the Scriptural truth without being discriminated against? I looked throught the TOS and couldn't find where taking a stand on a doctrinal issue would be against TOS. Does it really offend people that bad to hear a different point of view?
Personally, I have been slammed, discredited, name-called, and basically called an idiot for believing in Biblical Sabbath keeping and nothing is done about that. But when a Sabbath keeper simply says that they think that the Lord intends Christians to still honor His Sabbath, they are giving a warning to not speak about people like that. I don't get it, sorry and I don't think it's fair or right to not give opportunities for both sides of the debate when the Thread Topic asks an actual question.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 11:49:49 AM
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P31W
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quote:
Christ said that not one part of the law would pass away, yet He also came to be the fulfillment of the law.
Christ said that not one part of the law would pass away - the law is God's stardard! God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He and His standards never change. So his laws don't change. His laws require both obedience from the heart and obedience in actions. Because our "heart" is never completely pure then out works are not going to be righteous before God and our worship of Him is not going to be righteous.
These "standards" of God or laws of God show us how completely unable we are to save ourselves. God's standards are simply impossible for his to meet. Can't do it!
So Jesus came to fufill the "requirements" of the law and to offer up to God the perfect sacrifice for our sin.
In doing that I am no longer under the "curse" of the law. The curse of the law is death and seperation from God.
Now that Jesus has fufilled the requirements of the law/God's standards I am free to obey the law with great joy and simply loving them!!!!
I don't keep the OT laws concerning the Priest because Jesus is my high priest. I don't make sacrifices any longer because what animal can compete with Christ? They are a cheap subsititue for the "real thing".
I "do" try to keep the civil and health related laws in my own life and push to have those laws "remain" on our books in many cases or added to our books. Property rights laws, marriage laws, boundry laws, employee rights laws, sanitation, seperate those who are sick from the healthy, weights and measures, etc. I think God's laws are the very best.
The moral laws I try to keep with the help of the HS also. I love them because they represent God's standard!!! Being a follower of Christ means that I obey his example in obeying the moral standards.
_______
When I study the laws of the OT one thing that strikes home with me is how every part of ones life is to be lived in accordance with the law. From the food you choose to eat to your sex life. From the cloths you select to wear to the person you select to marry. God wanted from the beginning for us to realize that He is to have control of our whole life. Loving God and loving man have always been the most important commands. Loving God means to obey him.
< Message edited by P31W -- 7/19/2005 11:55:20 AM >
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 12:00:40 PM
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EZ_03
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
OP edited for clarification.
and the OP as it now reads:
quote:
WARNING
Statements that those who are not keeping the sabbath law, dietary laws, and feast laws are in some way out of the will of God will be considered a violation of the Terms of Service.
surely i just read that wrong: after reading the revised OP are we now to understand that statements that those who ARE walking in these instructions are in some way out of the will of God will be considered by the moderator to be just fine and NOT TOS violations?
seriously?
_____________________________
Open my eyes that I may behold wonderful things from Your Torah. (Psalms 119:18)
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. (Romans 3:31)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 12:23:20 PM
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rockv12
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But of course if you say that you must keep the law as the question asks, then you will be implying that someone is out of God's will according to someone who holds the opposite view. You can't get around that! The OP sets one up for getting in trouble.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 12:41:25 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3965
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quote:
The OP sets one up for getting in trouble.
Thats the way I see it. It is even murkier than before it was edited. If I am to say that eating meat that has been strangled is against God's will for a gentile believer, based on Acts 15, then I am in violation.
?????????
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 1:14:20 PM
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Jipsah
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Acts 15
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
(the Word of the Lord) all italics and underlinings mine
< Message edited by Jipsah -- 7/19/2005 1:17:48 PM >
_____________________________
"I have a pet shark living in my swimming pool
Sometimes he eats my friends but man he's cool"
Royal Ruckus (www.royalruckus.com)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 1:29:31 PM
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a-lily
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I am reminded of a saying by a famous Jew....
"Not that there's anything wrong with that" Jerry Sinfeild
_____________________________
"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." -Jesus Matthew 5 : 18
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 1:42:57 PM
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GPickypick
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I thought Paul covered all of this in Romans 7...
Romans 7:1-6 tells how the Christian is released from the law; that is, how the law was fulfilled.
Romans 7:7-13 tells how the law brings people to Christ; that is, how that law will not pass away until heaven and earth pass away. These verses tell the function of the law.
Paul knew that questions like these would come up, and that false teachers would arise who tried to persuade people to keep the law. He was writing this book after the Acts 15 Jerusalem Council. And, as he outlines in 1 Timothy, he know there would be people whom we now call "Seventh Day Adventists" and "Messianic Jews" who would try to persuade us to follow the letter of the law. That's why he wrote Romans 7:1-6. That's why he wrote 1 Timothy 1:3-10, which tells us that the law is not made for believers, but for unbelievers, to show them their sin and their need for Christ.
Anyone who believes the Bible cannot rightfully say that the Christian is commanded to keep the Old Testament law. Your preceding Judaizers, Sola Scriptura and Yahweh Saves (much as I loved them both and as nice as they were), understood this. Last I heard they had decided that Paul's teaching on the law was inconsistent with Jesus' teaching and had forsaken him as an apostle with any authority. Obviously, I disagree, but at least they understood what Paul taught. They knew what his letters said. And if you believe Paul, you can't believe in this legalism that tells us to obey the Mosaic Law.
< Message edited by GPickypick -- 7/19/2005 1:46:07 PM >
_____________________________
"And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." - 2 Corinthians 3:18
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 1:46:46 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2441
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Gpicky,
Isn't sin "lawlesness"? Are there "two extremes" when we look at the law?
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 2:27:28 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7673
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From: New Jersey
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This will be my last response on this thread.
The rules for this thread are the same as that of the Sabbath - One Stop Thread.
If it makes you to nervous to participate then I'm ok with that. Don't participate. But if you are wanting to discuss the topic of keeping various parts of the Law then this is the thread for that topic.
_____________________________
Fritz
Senior Manager of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Want to see my latest online project? Check out http://twitter.com/crosswalk_com
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 3:12:48 PM
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gambit
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In Galatians, Paul wrote that if we are led by the Spirit, then we are not under the law.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 4:52:18 PM
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rockv12
Posts: 62
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Yes or no question is being asked to me...I will answer "yes". I believe Christians are to follow the Sabbath law. So this being said, wouldn't I be implying that it is God's will that we keep the Sabbath? Am I in trouble for answering the question?
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 5:21:13 PM
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GPickypick
Posts: 14
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From: San Fernando Valley, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Gpicky,
Isn't sin "lawlesness"? Are there "two extremes" when we look at the law?
That's right, sin is lawlessness. I'm not promoting antinomianism. What I am saying is that the Christian is DEAD to the Mosaic Law. He is under absolutely zero obligation to obey it. But that doesn't mean we can just do whatever we want. Paul addresses that in Romans 6.
I really think a good study of Romans 6-7 and Galatians would clear this matter up without all the fuss.
_____________________________
"And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." - 2 Corinthians 3:18
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not sure about specific verses - but I will find them and post them when I get back here later.
