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Is the tribulation close? - 8/18/2008 8:23:54 PM
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lrdl3537
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So my question is, Do you think the end is near and the tribulation is not far ahead and if so why?
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/18/2008 9:35:03 PM
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Sinner-Saint
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Near, yes, but as to length of time... that's hard to say.
At any given point, the Great Tribulation is three and a half years away plus.
There are a few more things which have to happen.
1. The terrible beast has yet to form.
- I am looking for a federation of the western superpowers, the G8
- With a ten member council of ministers presiding over the coordinated efforts of the "North."
- From this an insider usurps control, "hamstringing" three and ruling over them so as to take control.
2. The covenant with many has to be "forced" through by might.
- The kind of force would be akin to how Israeli evicted Israeli from Gaza
- It will be with a plethora of Israel's enemies.
- The Israelis will get title to the Temple Mount so as to build their Temple.
It would not surprise me if someone "found" the Ark of the Covenant. (Actually, an American claimed he had found it three decades ago beneath Golgatha.) This would provide an impetus to make peace and secure the Temple Mount. It would also necessitate the building of the Temple.
I expect Israel will use a nuclear weapon. One of the people behind that use of Israel's nuclear arsenal will prove to be the false prophet. With all the talk about Iran, Israel is making noises signalling an imminent attack (probably after our elections in November). Israel had previously attacked Syria by air and nothing happened in return. Israel is militarily superior to her enemies.
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[Deleted] - 8/18/2008 10:30:15 PM
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/24/2008 8:12:56 AM
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cog41
Posts: 616
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From: The Great State of Texas
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quote:
So my question is, Do you think the end is near and the tribulation is not far ahead and if so why?
Who can know for sure when and where it will begin? We can only watch the signs of the times, and be ready as we see the day approaching.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/24/2008 5:00:33 PM
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Thessa
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I believe that the antichrist is here on earth.
But only God knows for sure.
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/24/2008 5:58:39 PM
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Neeva_Candida
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Yes. By at least one day.
~Neeva
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/26/2008 6:53:55 AM
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Birdiecat
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It seems that before Olmert resigned he had ok'd a treaty. This treaty will have to be approved by the UN. The UN reconvenes in September. Condie Rice wants peace before Bush is out of office. So, if a treaty is signed before the year is out ... yeah, looks like the tribulation could closer than we realize. I do believe the beast is alive and very well among us ... who is it? I think we're seeing the beast's pals in Putin, Achmadinejad (sp) ... who else could fit the bill?
_____________________________
Come, Lord Jesus!
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/28/2008 12:36:01 PM
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loco79
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quote:
So my question is, Do you think the end is near and the tribulation is not far ahead and if so why?
I think that is hard to answer, Jesus tells us that no one knows the day or hour of his return, not even the angels in heaven.
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/28/2008 12:40:49 PM
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JimboFletch
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I saw where a self-proclaimed prophet asserted 20 years ago that the Lord would return at midnight.
Midnight in October.
Midnight on October 31.
Midnight on October 31, 2007.
His followers trust in him so completely, they still follow him.
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/29/2008 9:47:46 AM
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hellochurch
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Some say they think we have already entered the trib.
There is debate as to when the rapture occurs, but the scripture indicates the rapture occurs at the time of the resurrection, and the resurrection occurs, as Mary replied to Jesus, indicating his teaching to her already, that, 'I know he (Lazarus) will rise again at the Last day.'
The last day is the last day. That settles that, and the Last day is the day that the rapture/resurrection occurs.
Re: the Beast, I believe the beast will be made up of nominal christians in a religious system.
True believers will need to avoid this like the plague, because apparently plagues will be sent against these people, God will judge them, on the earth, before the judgement.
True believers in the U.S. (which has been ok toward christians relatively speaking, to date) may begin to suffer persecution here in the west, as the scripture "All nations will turn against you" becomes reality.
We, as true believers may have to depend solely on supernatural deliverance, as the Hebrews did in the desert with Moses.
One important thing different between them and us is that Moses was their prophet, whereas new testament, all of us are prophets called by the Lord to function in the Holy Things.
By HOly Things I mean the supernatural works of God that the new testament believers functioned in.
We may have to depend on Gods deliverances to us through this means, and so should prepare by seeking the Holy Spirit and what He has for us to learn and operate in now, before we have to use these methods for our very survival.
ie. we should believe by faith for God's provision even though we receive a paycheck, we should move over into faith in God for that paycheck, and exercise our faith for everything we need, asking God first to supply it and then direct us.
We should be seeking the Lord about what to do wtih all our finances etc.
This might spark storing up and depositing in hiding places, etc. but
the Hebrews did not do it, any provision they brought withe them into the desert was used in three days, yet God kept them and provided completely for them for 40 years.
We too can depend on him like that, and should start now -move over in to the spiritual and don't live by natural means anymore. Exercise your faith for things now, pray and ask for everything and don't doubt and practice faith without doubtiing even for little things.
this is how to become prepared to live by faith entirely as the hebrews did, should we go through not being able to buy or sell.
dont fear and dont panic, trust in the Lord who can deliver you, but He requires, He needs faith to operate in your life, for everything in the bible to do with God is by faith, from our initial aceptance of his Word re salvation to everything else following it/ it is all by faith.
love to you all..
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/29/2008 9:55:52 AM
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hellochurch
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two extra points to add to the above,
God needs faith to operate, although God doesnt need anything and He is supreme, He has rules that He goes by and one is the faith rule.
He has made it so that everything in the kingdom of GOd is by faith, and doesn't operate unless it is by faith.
The only way to obtain faith is to get it from hearing the Word, according to the bible,
Real faith can change circumstances and do miracles.
When I said the hebrews operated by faith for everything in the desert, I need to correct that because it was Moses that operated in faith for them with God. God taught him faith and Moses used it and that is how the hebrews benefited because their leader knew how to operate in Gods Holy things.
Today God expects each one of us who have learned from the bible to operate in faith, because one of us is greater than the greatest o.t. prophet, - JEsus said,, so we are expected to learn faith and operate in it.
Faith is the only way to move in the things of God and the only way to receive even answers to our prayers, because "he who doubts is like a wave of the sea and don't let that man think he will receive anything" bible quote.
this is not because God is hard or mean, but because faith is the system, or currency if you will, that God has set up that His whole Kingdom operates on.
Let us get eyes to see and ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/30/2008 1:54:19 AM
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TheBibleTRUTH
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We aren't in the trib yet,
Colossians 1:13
13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Hath (past tense) delivered us from the power of darkness. Meaning, we are already delivered from it.
2 Corinthians 1:10
10) Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;
1 Thessalonians 1:10
10) And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Thessalonians is pretty conclusive that believers will not take part in the tribulation. We must first be gathered in the air with Christ... so since that has not happened, we aren't in the tribulation.
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/30/2008 11:57:28 AM
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Sinner-Saint
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
Hath (past tense)
What hath you wrought in thou bringing forth such definition as is begging in the Greek?
First of all, Paul did not write in Shakespearean English.
Second of all, the word "hath" or "has" is NOT in the Greek.
The word delivered is in the AORIST Tense - NOT the Past Tense.
The aorist is said to be "simple occurrence" or "summary occurrence", without regard for the amount of time taken to accomplish the action. This tense is also often referred to as the 'punctiliar' tense. 'Punctiliar' in this sense means 'viewed as a single, collective whole,' a "one-point-in-time" action, although it may actually take place over a period of time.
Furthermore, you can not frame your eschatology upon the Epistles which have nothing to do with the future events of Jesus' parousia.
To build any meaningful eschatology you need strong columns and beams. Colossians perhaps lends us some wallpaper for material in an eschatological sense.
The book of Daniel and Revelations are prime building material. Also needed for basic structure is Jesus' Olivet Discourse found in the Gospels. Paul's writing in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians is essential material too. You must start with these sections to build your eschatology, not all the periphery and back to the center or your foundation will be askew and the building will not stand upright.
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/30/2008 12:11:14 PM
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Sinner-Saint
Posts: 499
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
Thessalonians is pretty conclusive that believers will not take part in the tribulation. We must first be gathered in the air with Christ... so since that has not happened, we aren't in the tribulation.
No, Paul says we are not to incur God's Wrath.
First of all, I suspect your definition of "tribulation."
Tribulation is NOT the one 'seven.'
Nowhere in the Bible does God equate the one 'seven' with a "Tribulation Period" as many Pre-Tribbers do.
Jesus defines the time of the Great Tribulation in the Olivet Discourse.
The Great Tribulation only begins at the midpoint Abomination and ends at some nebulous time afterward when Jesus comes again on the Day of the Lord which is identified by its signature event of the Sun/moon/star signs.
2nd Thessalonians 2 lays out a sequence of events which agrees with the key eschatological passage in the Olivet Discourse saying we will not see Christ come again to rescue us until after 1. the rebellion takes place and 2. the Man of Lawlessness or Perdition is plainly shown. That happens at the midpoint of the one 'seven' when the Abomination is put into place. Then there will be no doubt.
So between these two major passages in the New Testament we can say our being gathered unto Jesus will come some time into the second half of the one 'seven' and furthermore Jesus tells us we will be handed over and that the Elect will only barely survive to see His coming. Paul puts it the same way saying:
1Th 4:17 "we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
From this we can learn:
1. Not everyone who lives to see the one 'seven' come to pass will see Christ coming on the clouds.
2. Those who do will see Saints already with Christ upon the clouds. Paul explains in 1st Corinthinans and in the preceding verse 15 that the Dead in Christ rise first. This also explains the observer-true point of view of 1st Th 3:13 where Jesus returns with the Saints.
3. We do not go to Jesus when we die.
4. We only meet Jesus when He comes for us in fulfillment of John 14:2-3.
5. Once we are with Jesus there we will remain.
And this special day, this wonderful Day of the Lord only comes in this sequence of events:
1. Midpoint Abomination
2. Great Tribulation
3. The Day of the Lord.
To say anything else of Mt 24:15-31 is to try and twist out of the words given there where the Elect doesn't mean what it means everywhere else in the New Testament.
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/31/2008 1:23:24 PM
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TheBibleTRUTH
Posts: 94
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint
First of all, Paul did not write in Shakespearean English.
Second of all, the word "hath" or "has" is NOT in the Greek.
The word delivered is in the AORIST Tense - NOT the Past Tense.
The aorist is said to be "simple occurrence" or "summary occurrence", without regard for the amount of time taken to accomplish the action. This tense is also often referred to as the 'punctiliar' tense. 'Punctiliar' in this sense means 'viewed as a single, collective whole,' a "one-point-in-time" action, although it may actually take place over a period of time.
1) Regardless of what the Greek behind the word means, the definition is EASILY obtained by scriptures. The fact that Christ is coming back and we are going to be gathered in the air means that WE HAVE ALREADY WON. The victory is already sealed and is a done deal. This means that we are already delivered, which is why you can use that word in the past tense.
I'm not really sure what you are trying to prove with your post... are you trying to say that we are going to go through the wrath period (by the way the only reason I used the word tribulation is because that is the most common word for it, call it what you want, I don't care). My Bible clearly states that we will not go through the wrath period.
quote:
Furthermore, you can not frame your eschatology upon the Epistles which have nothing to do with the future events of Jesus' parousia.
2. Are you serious? Do you have any idea what the hope is? The Epistles have EVERY bit as much to with the end times as Daniel or Revelations.
Romans 1:16-18 - Those who are born again are saved, those who aren't suffer wrath.
Romans 2:5-7 - Born again - eternal life. Those who aren't - wrath.
Romans 5:2 - Hope of glory, referring to when we are with God for eternity.
Romans 5:9 - We are saved from the wrath.
I Corinthians 13:9-13 - Refers to when we are with God in heaven.
I Corinthians 15:12-58 - Resurrection.
II Corinthians 5:6-10 - Talking about how this world is not our home, also the BEMA which is where judgments will be carried out. Which happens after we are resurrected
Ephesians 1:3 - Blessed with all spiritual blessings in Heaven
Ephesians 1:11 - We have already obtained an inheritance for us in heaven.
Ephesians 1:13-14 - We were already purchased by what Christ did for us. We are simply waiting for the redemption when Christ comes back.
Ephesians 2:6-7 - Seated in the heavenly places with Christ where he will show us the exceeding riches of his grace.
Ephesians 4:13 - We will be like Christ with our new bodies (See Gospel of John, Chapters 20 and 21)
Anyway, this was only a quick perusal of 3 Epistles. There is much much more pertaining to the end times and our involvement in it if you study deeper. You cannot say that the epistles have nothing to do with the end times, because that is just inaccurate.
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/31/2008 1:41:10 PM
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TheBibleTRUTH
Posts: 94
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
Thessalonians is pretty conclusive that believers will not take part in the tribulation. We must first be gathered in the air with Christ... so since that has not happened, we aren't in the tribulation.
No, Paul says we are not to incur God's Wrath.
First of all, I suspect your definition of "tribulation."
Tribulation is NOT the one 'seven.'
Nowhere in the Bible does God equate the one 'seven' with a "Tribulation Period" as many Pre-Tribbers do.
Jesus defines the time of the Great Tribulation in the Olivet Discourse.
The Great Tribulation only begins at the midpoint Abomination and ends at some nebulous time afterward when Jesus comes again on the Day of the Lord which is identified by its signature event of the Sun/moon/star signs.
2nd Thessalonians 2 lays out a sequence of events which agrees with the key eschatological passage in the Olivet Discourse saying we will not see Christ come again to rescue us until after 1. the rebellion takes place and 2. the Man of Lawlessness or Perdition is plainly shown. That happens at the midpoint of the one 'seven' when the Abomination is put into place. Then there will be no doubt.
So between these two major passages in the New Testament we can say our being gathered unto Jesus will come some time into the second half of the one 'seven' and furthermore Jesus tells us we will be handed over and that the Elect will only barely survive to see His coming. Paul puts it the same way saying:
1Th 4:17 "we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
From this we can learn:
1. Not everyone who lives to see the one 'seven' come to pass will see Christ coming on the clouds.
2. Those who do will see Saints already with Christ upon the clouds. Paul explains in 1st Corinthinans and in the preceding verse 15 that the Dead in Christ rise first. This also explains the observer-true point of view of 1st Th 3:13 where Jesus returns with the Saints.
3. We do not go to Jesus when we die.
4. We only meet Jesus when He comes for us in fulfillment of John 14:2-3.
5. Once we are with Jesus there we will remain.
And this special day, this wonderful Day of the Lord only comes in this sequence of events:
1. Midpoint Abomination
2. Great Tribulation
3. The Day of the Lord.
To say anything else of Mt 24:15-31 is to try and twist out of the words given there where the Elect doesn't mean what it means everywhere else in the New Testament.
That is completely ridiculous. The fact that you try to push the wrath period on believers is contrary to God's word.
God who is a protector, deliverer, who has already purchased us by way of Jesus Christ. A God who will not suffer us to be tempted above that which we are able. A God who provides for us. A God who wishes above all things that we prosper and be in health. A God who spared not his only son, that with him he would give us all things. A God who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in the heavenly places. And a God who says nothing can separate us from his love, absolutely would not suffer us to wrath.
Romans 8:38-39
38) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Are you trying to say that a God who is love, who already stated that nothing will separate us from the love of God, who has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind; would just give us up to a wrath period? That is the most asinine thing I have ever heard and is a bunch of lies.
Even more, the Bible says that we are DELIVERED FROM THE WRATH. THAT WE ARE ALREADY A PURCHASED POSSESSION. We are God's sons, he spared nothing for us including his only begotten Son. Why wouldn't he deliver us from a wrath period? If you were a parent, and you saw your child about to get hurt, would you not try and save him? Why is it that everyone always tries to make God out to be less loving than we are. God IS love. That is what he is and he will not allow us to suffer a wrath period or any great seven year tribulation; and I will base my life on that.
Edit: Also in II Thessalonians, where the context is the end times, there is a scripture that states we are delievered.
II Thessalonians 3:2-3
2) And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
3) But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
There is no doubt that this world is going to get worse and worse as we get closer to Christ coming back, but the great tribulation and wrath period will happen after the gathering together.
< Message edited by TheBibleTRUTH -- 8/31/2008 1:56:56 PM >
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/31/2008 1:59:05 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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Jesus says
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
WE going to have some days. Who are the elect?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/31/2008 7:53:05 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 396
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shalom, my friends.
Yes, the "tribulation" or rather the end of this age is close. We are probably within the final 150 years or so.
Second, no, the last few years are NOT to be referred to in Scripture as the "tribulation period."
Third, the first 3-1/2 years are complete, having been fulfilled in Yeshua`s lifetime during His ministry in His First Advent (Coming). Much of the 24th and 25th chapters of Matthew, the 13th chapter of Mark, and the 21st chapter of Luke have already been fulfilled.
Fourth, the "GREAT" tribulation was conditional and fortunately was not experienced. It was contingent upon those running having to do so in the winter or on the Shabbat (Sabbath).
Fifth, one does not have to be totally and physically removed from the earth to avoid the "Wrath." God was quite able to preserve the Israelites in Goshen from the plagues in Egypt while not physically removed from Egypt.
Hope this helps some to think.
Retrobyter
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/31/2008 10:44:49 PM
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sanctificare
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quote:
WE going to have some days. Who are the elect?
"The dead in Christ shall rise first." I believe that's in Revelation, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I get from it.
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/31/2008 11:17:42 PM
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Retrobyter
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Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shalom, sancificare!
quote:
ORIGINAL: sanctificare
quote:
WE going to have some days. Who are the elect?
"The dead in Christ shall rise first." I believe that's in Revelation, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I get from it.
You're right about the dead in the Messiah, but the verse is I Thes. 4:16.
Retrobyter
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RE: Is the tribulation close? - 8/31/2008 11:49:29 PM
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sanctificare
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That's it! Sorry, I think I've been spending too much time on Revelation lately. Thanks! 
_____________________________
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is - His good, pleasing and perfect will. [Romans 12:2]
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