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Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/27/2008 10:40:58 PM
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CCCdnt
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I have seen discussions before about whether or not one should discuss the consequences of not being saved when witnessing. Many responses seemed to say that one should not try to scare a person into being saved and that instead the focus should be on Christ and His love. I would imagine that there are possibly some people who want to get saved primarily to or just to avoid the lake of fire.
Do you believe that a person can be saved if the person's primary or only motivation for wanting to be saved is to avoid going to the lake of fire? By this I mean do you think a person can truly accept Christ as his Savior if he is doing so primarily to or just to avoid eternity in the lake of fire? Please back up your belief/opinion with Scripture if possible.
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/27/2008 10:45:01 PM
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Zack_NorcalRiders
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ive been wondering that lately myself
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/27/2008 11:06:24 PM
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delete123
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I believe at the moment a person believes in Jesus, he can be saved. I'm not sure if you pressure someone and they do it under duress is valid. An innocent man has confessed guilt when pressured. It a practice I would not use.
A person needs to see God's love to have a heart change, a feared heart doesn't change but can become hard.
Think about it
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/27/2008 11:22:40 PM
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Walker311
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quote:
Do you believe that a person can be saved if the person's primary or only motivation for wanting to be saved is to avoid going to the lake of fire? By this I mean do you think a person can truly accept Christ as his Savior if he is doing so primarily to or just to avoid eternity in the lake of fire? Please back up your belief/opinion with Scripture if possible.
God does not desire that anyone die and go to hell.
2Pe:3:9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
God makes sure that we have opportunity to know and worship Him so there is no excuse.
Ro:1:20: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Ro:1:21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Finally, when those who deny Him to one day stand before God to give an account of their lives, He will show them why they deserve hell and none will be able to disagree.
M't:7:23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
M't:25:41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/27/2008 11:23:52 PM
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CCCdnt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: delete123
I believe at the moment a person believes in Jesus, he can be saved. I'm not sure if you pressure someone and they do it under duress is valid. An innocent man has confessed guilt when pressured. It a practice I would not use.
A person needs to see God's love to have a heart change, a feared heart doesn't change but can become hard.
Think about it
I did not mean this in the sense of a person "getting saved" just because he feels pressured. In that case I would say the person was probably just going through the motions just to get the person witnessing to him to leave him alone.
An example of what I was asking would be the following: a case where a person just heard the Gospel message once during a church service (including what happens to unbelievers) and believed it. This person then does not want to end up in torment for eternity and wants to be saved for that purpose alone (not really because he feels a love for Christ and/or a gratefulness of what Christ did for him).
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/28/2008 12:37:10 AM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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"it's grace that taught my heart to fear and grace my fears releaved..."
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"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
~ Romans 12:12
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/28/2008 10:06:38 AM
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d4nnyb0y02
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A section of Jude comes to mind...
Jude 1:21-23
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Wanting to avoid the lake of fire, may be a very necessary part of the process for some--needing to be saved by fear rather than compassion. However, fear of the fire *is not enough*. Trust in Jesus Christ to save you from the fire, is what is important.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/28/2008 10:25:55 AM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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What ever God uses to bring you to the point of trusting in Christ for salvation is ok. We are saved by His Grace, He brings us to the point and He turns us to Him, so whatever means Christ uses to bring someone to Him, I would have to say is fine.
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Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/28/2008 10:55:36 AM
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d4nnyb0y02
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quote:
"it's grace that taught my heart to fear and grace my fears releaved..."
Love that line. :)
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OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/28/2008 12:36:16 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CCCdnt
I have seen discussions before about whether or not one should discuss the consequences of not being saved when witnessing. Many responses seemed to say that one should not try to scare a person into being saved and that instead the focus should be on Christ and His love. I would imagine that there are possibly some people who want to get saved primarily to or just to avoid the lake of fire.
Do you believe that a person can be saved if the person's primary or only motivation for wanting to be saved is to avoid going to the lake of fire? By this I mean do you think a person can truly accept Christ as his Savior if he is doing so primarily to or just to avoid eternity in the lake of fire? Please back up your belief/opinion with Scripture if possible.
Jesus was not bashful about speaking the consequences of not Believing in God through Him; early on in His ministry he spoke to salvation, the consequence of not believing, and the reason folks don't believe;
(Joh 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 3:17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
(Joh 3:18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
I do believe that I would be remiss if I did not do the same.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/28/2008 12:49:27 PM
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raivyne
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When I was a little kid people got saved cause they didn't want to go to "you know where".
Now all we hear about is grace and just believe and you will be saved. Ask and you shall receive.
Neither of these things alone are a complete picture IMO.
The Word of God needs to be preached in its entirety so that believers have a good foundation to build their spiritual lives from.
They need to know that if your life is a practice of inequity you will go to you know where, no matter whom you profess to know. They also need to know that the debt of their sinful life was paid by Jesus Christ. They are free to go forth and 'sin no more'; to live a faithful life with the Holy Spirit inside them and have assurance of salvation.
Just my opinion, YMMV.
_____________________________
P.U.S.H. – Pray Until Something Happens
What if God is asking us for a sign?
Knowledge is proud; wisdom is humble.
Patiently waiting for my KSA
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/28/2008 1:03:14 PM
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LCannon
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'Cheap grace means grace as a doctrine, a principle, a system. It means forgiveness of sins proclaimed as a general truth, the love of God taught as the Christian 'conception' of God. An intellectual assent to that idea is held to be of itself sufficient to secure remission of sins.... In such a Church the world finds a cheap covering for its sins; no contrition is required, still less any real desire to be delivered from sin. Cheap grace therefore amounts to a denial of the living Word of God, in fact, a denial of the Incarnation of the Word of God.'(Dietrich Bonhoeffer)
"Talk is cheap; show me your faith without obedience and I will show you my faith by my obedience." James 2:17,18
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"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/28/2008 4:19:30 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LCannon
'Cheap grace means grace as a doctrine, a principle, a system. It means forgiveness of sins proclaimed as a general truth, the love of God taught as the Christian 'conception' of God. An intellectual assent to that idea is held to be of itself sufficient to secure remission of sins.... In such a Church the world finds a cheap covering for its sins; no contrition is required, still less any real desire to be delivered from sin. Cheap grace therefore amounts to a denial of the living Word of God, in fact, a denial of the Incarnation of the Word of God.'(Dietrich Bonhoeffer)
"Talk is cheap; show me your faith without obedience and I will show you my faith by my obedience." James 2:17,18
I like what Paul said better. "It is a gift of God; not of works, lest any man boast."
Doesn't get much cheaper than a free gift.
Bonhoeffer, whoever that is, at the time he wrote that, appears to have had a shallow understanding of the grace of God, I do believe. In fact, what He said actually goes against what God's Word teaches.
Whoever shall believe in His heart and confess with His lips that Jesus is Lord shall be saved. ALL who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Such a church that doesn't believe this--that anything more than God's unmerited favor is "sufficient to secure remissions of sins," gives a cheap covering for sins, full of works.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/28/2008 10:32:44 PM
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CCCdnt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
quote:
ORIGINAL: LCannon
'Cheap grace means grace as a doctrine, a principle, a system. It means forgiveness of sins proclaimed as a general truth, the love of God taught as the Christian 'conception' of God. An intellectual assent to that idea is held to be of itself sufficient to secure remission of sins.... In such a Church the world finds a cheap covering for its sins; no contrition is required, still less any real desire to be delivered from sin. Cheap grace therefore amounts to a denial of the living Word of God, in fact, a denial of the Incarnation of the Word of God.'(Dietrich Bonhoeffer)
"Talk is cheap; show me your faith without obedience and I will show you my faith by my obedience." James 2:17,18
I like what Paul said better. "It is a gift of God; not of works, lest any man boast."
Doesn't get much cheaper than a free gift.
Bonhoeffer, whoever that is, at the time he wrote that, appears to have had a shallow understanding of the grace of God, I do believe. In fact, what He said actually goes against what God's Word teaches.
Whoever shall believe in His heart and confess with His lips that Jesus is Lord shall be saved. ALL who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Such a church that doesn't believe this--that anything more than God's unmerited favor is "sufficient to secure remissions of sins," gives a cheap covering for sins, full of works.
Please do not let this thread turn into a "OSAS versus conditional security" debate. I am sure a moderator would redirect it anyway. The topic is whether or not a person that wants to be saved just to be able to avoid the lake of fire could be "truly" saved.
_____________________________
http://www.abort73.com
See for Yourself
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/28/2008 11:25:51 PM
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deermousie
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No one has mentioned Ezek. 3:
16 At the end of seven days the word of the LORD came to me: 17 "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. 18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.
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Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/29/2008 1:50:39 AM
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atruefaith
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quote:
By this I mean do you think a person can truly accept Christ as his Savior if he is doing so primarily to or just to avoid eternity in the lake of fire?
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. - 1 John 4:18
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A series of short stories depicting the Christian faith....
www.atruefaith.com
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/29/2008 1:35:06 PM
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bravjim
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If they are truly converted, then they will follow Jesus and live in relationship with Him. If they are converted out of fear, but don't have a relationship with Him, I question whether they have been converted from belief in Him as Lord.
They will come to Him and say, Master, master, have we not cast out demons in Your name? Have we not taught in you name? and He will say to them, Depart from me, I never knew you.
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I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/29/2008 1:36:01 PM
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raivyne
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quote:
The topic is whether or not a person that wants to be saved just to be able to avoid the lake of fire could be "truly" saved.
I think that can be a place for people to open the door to Christ, but if they never open their whole hearts to the Lord then it won't be enough. I know many a pastor who got saved just cause they didn't want to go to hell, but they steeped themsevles in the Word and grew beyond that point; they became servents of the Lord wishing to do what pleases Him.
_____________________________
P.U.S.H. – Pray Until Something Happens
What if God is asking us for a sign?
Knowledge is proud; wisdom is humble.
Patiently waiting for my KSA
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/29/2008 4:27:49 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
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Atheists want to avoid the lake of fire, but they aren't saved.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/29/2008 4:32:23 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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I think if we are all real with ourselves all of us would have to say avoiding the lake of fire was somewhat a reason why we made Jesus our Savior...
_____________________________
"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
~ Romans 12:12
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/29/2008 5:39:22 PM
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Lady_Daffodil
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This is a question I too wrestle with from time to time. I do love Jesus, and I've believed He is the Son of God ever since I can remember, but I must say that my primary reason for accepting Him as my Savior IS because I want to go to Heaven as opposed to going to hell! But I totally admit I'm a sinner, and I totally accept His gift of grace and salvation, and I know I can't save myself and I'm trusting in Jesus to save me in spite of the fact that I still stumble and make mistakes, and I'm still too self-indulgent, and I'm still a wimp about witnessing.
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/29/2008 5:53:04 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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ah ha lady this is not the confession thread...
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"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
~ Romans 12:12
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RE: Is Wanting to Avoid the Lake of Fire Enough? - 10/29/2008 7:41:10 PM
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Teaching_The_Way
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We should tell others that we do not want to see them parish, and God does not want that either.
To be saved one must BE Born Again, and 1st greatest commandment Love God with all of our heart mind and soul, and the 2nd greatest commandment is to love our neighbor as our selves.
If we do not have love we are a resounding Gong, as Paul states.
Abraham was blessed not just because he believe God (had Faith) BUT ALSO because he loved God as well.
Going to a church, or being a church member, or growing up in a Christian home, does not make us (saved christians). It takes repentance, be Born Again and loving God and our neighbors, and trying to live a holy life, (we do not have a license to sin) as it is written.
God Bless all,
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If our opinions does not line up with
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