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[Poll]
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Is Revolution Wrong?
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Total Votes : 23
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(last vote on : 11/14/2008 2:07:29 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 10:50:47 AM
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ManimalX
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I put this in the election folder because it greatly concerns government, taxes, and responsibilities of Christian citizens. If it needs to be moved to somewhere such as Morality & Ethics, please do so!
The question is this: In light of biblical teachings that Christians are to pay their taxes and honor their government so long as that government does not ask them to violate God's law, was it wrong for American patriots to revolt against England over (among other things) taxation?
As the USA moves further and further left, taxes will go higher and higher. As religion is replaced with government, more and more laws will be imposed. Would there ever be a time at which it would be ok for the American people to rise up in revolt against their government?
I know there was a thread floating around about an eventual civil war, but this thread is more interested in the question of the right or wrong of citizens revolting against their government.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 10:54:38 AM
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P31W
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In light of Romans 13 and how the government has perverted itself from God's plan I see nothing wrong with it.
The three instuitions God ordained and gave certain roles/responsibilities to are
marriage/family
church
government.
I don't believe God expected us His children to stand by as these three become perverted and simply sit back and wait for Him to do what He commands us to be doing.
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 11:02:23 AM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
As the USA moves further and further left, taxes will go higher and higher. As religion is replaced with government, more and more laws will be imposed. Would there ever be a time at which it would be ok for the American people to rise up in revolt against their government?
This is an assumption; not a fact, first off.
I see America moving further and further right, myself. I think it depends on what you hold in value or what areas you're looking at.
I also don't feel that religion is being replaced with government; unfortunately, I see people trying to replace government with religion. Various groups keep trying to force their religious beliefs upon the entire nation so tht the voices of the minorities are forced upon the entire majority.
That said, YES, revolution IS necessary at times. Revolution is what gave birth to the United States. Revolution was attempted during the 1860's, and though it was squashed, it still brought about changes to our country that were necessary. Revolution is a last resort, but when people become disenchanted with the movements of their current government (say, like the United States over the past 30 years and there seems to be no hope in removing officials by standard means over issues that are considered vital to a country's survival, then I believe revolution is necessary.
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 11:20:23 AM
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TMeeks
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I am not going to answer the question because the very thought of it is repugnant except in the more dire of circumstances as in Poland or the Soviet bloc countries.
But, I will say this. The American revolution was exceptional in that the revolters didn't end up eating their fellow revoltees alive. The same cannot be seen in the French Revolution, Castro's revolt, the communist revolt in Russia or the Mao's revolt. One never really knows the outcome of a revolt and whether it will live up to its promise or end up being worse than what it replaced.
A better idea is to clearly, boldly and loudly proclaim that one's country it heading in the wrong direction and try to head it off well before a revolt would even be contemplated.
A better question is "Have we been IN a revolt without knowing it?"
Normally, we think of a revolt as a violent uprising against a government. And, that is what the 1950's and 1960's radicals pictured as their modis operandi. But, they failed to win popular support and turned their attention to another form of revolt. And that was, clearly, taking over the educational and communication bodies where, instead of guns, they could use propaganda to affect their revolt against the overriding system of government over time. Here you see a bit of the shift in this letter from Eldrige Cleaver (Black Panther Party) to Radical Software magazine where he speaks of using video for 'propaganda' purposes.
For a Christian, the boldest 'revolution' is to be an ambassador for Jesus Christ. For it is only by the changing of hearts (and thus the mind) by bringing into a person's life the Holy Spirit that brings about real positive change. Physical revolts generally only bring about a different, albeit, equally negative change. The outcome of the revolt by Oliver Cromwell comes to mind.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 11:32:19 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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Tmeeks,
I agree that our first duty is to make disciples. And for me this has nothing to do with money or guns. It has to do with humans.
Notice this below from FoFAction oct. newsletter.
In March 2001, [Senator] Obama was the sole speaker in opposition to the bill on the floor of the Illinois Senate.
He said: "We're saying they are persons entitled to the kinds of protections provided to a child, a 9-month child delivered to term. I mean, it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child."8 So according to [Senator] Obama, "they", (babies who survive abortions or any other preterm newborns,) should be permitted to be killed because giving legal protection to preterm newborns would have the effect of banning all abortions.9
To further underscore Senator Obama's radical devotion to abortion rights, he has promised that "the first thing I'd do as president" would be to sign the Freedom of Choice Act.10 The FOCA is a devastating piece of legislation that would overturn nearly every local, state, and federal anti-abortion law passed in the last 40 years.11 In fact, it's so broadly written that legal analysts suggest the bill may prevent institutions and physicians from refusing to provide abortion services by invoking the conscience clause.
I see this taking us to China. When someone born healthy but under 9 months is not given basic human rights then I believe we Christians must take a bold stand. When doctors are forced to commit abortion when they have taken a vow to protect "human life" then we must take a bold stand.
I do agree that revolution does not always have to take the type of stand most commonly understood. One way to revolt is by holding back tax monies.
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 11:51:26 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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I have always thought that when in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
If one holds these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that men are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
Or something like that.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 11:52:55 AM
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todd_t
Posts: 1619
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
I am not going to answer the question because the very thought of it is repugnant except in the more dire of circumstances as in Poland or the Soviet bloc countries.
But, I will say this. The American revolution was exceptional in that the revolters didn't end up eating their fellow revoltees alive. The same cannot be seen in the French Revolution, Castro's revolt, the communist revolt in Russia or the Mao's revolt. One never really knows the outcome of a revolt and whether it will live up to its promise or end up being worse than what it replaced.
Believe it or not, I fully agree.
With one exception, revolutions have a way of imploding on their designers. It very nearly happened in this country following the colonials' end of combat with Britain.
Otherwise, anyone barking "revolution" in terms of Obama's possible election obviously has more regard for anarchy than the constitution, and would likely be happier moving to another country - perhaps China or Taiwan.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 11:54:03 AM
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todd_t
Posts: 1619
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
I have always thought that when in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
Or something like that.
Tom Paine?
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 11:56:23 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Tom Paine?
Please tell me you recognize that bit of text...?
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 11:59:13 AM
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todd_t
Posts: 1619
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From: The North Woods
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I see. It's Jefferson.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 12:00:27 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
I see. It's Jefferson.
He of course penned it, with a little help.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 12:13:08 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2998
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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The Book of Revelation isn't wrong; what is wrong is how the book is interpreted. The characters in the book - The Anti-Christ, The False Prophet, The Two Witnesses - will soon appear on the World's stage.
While I do not at all believe Obama is the Anti-Christ, the acceptance of the man despite his shaddy character, explains the ease at which the real Anti-Christ will be received by the world. This individual will come at a time of great crisis and will proclaim he alone will bring healing to the world; and the world will buy into his lies.
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 12:23:47 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
The Book of Revelation isn't wrong; what is wrong is how the book is interpreted. The characters in the book - The Anti-Christ, The False Prophet, The Two Witnesses - will soon appear on the World's stage.
While I do not at all believe Obama is the Anti-Christ, the acceptance of the man despite his shaddy character, explains the ease at which the real Anti-Christ will be received by the world. This individual will come at a time of great crisis and will proclaim he alone will bring healing to the world; and the world will buy into his lies.
Of course, it is clear that Brad Pitt is the Anti-Christ.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 12:26:51 PM
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Psalms274
Posts: 2243
Joined: 8/13/2005
From: Georgia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
The Book of Revelation isn't wrong; what is wrong is how the book is interpreted. The characters in the book - The Anti-Christ, The False Prophet, The Two Witnesses - will soon appear on the World's stage.
While I do not at all believe Obama is the Anti-Christ, the acceptance of the man despite his shaddy character, explains the ease at which the real Anti-Christ will be received by the world. This individual will come at a time of great crisis and will proclaim he alone will bring healing to the world; and the world will buy into his lies.
I think the op is about RevOLUtion not the book of RevELAtions. 
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
Linus, my dog, little Kaleigh and Sally!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 12:35:13 PM
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catfighter
Posts: 102
Joined: 10/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
As the USA moves further and further left, taxes will go higher and higher. As religion is replaced with government, more and more laws will be imposed. Would there ever be a time at which it would be ok for the American people to rise up in revolt against their government?
The country is more conservative and more religious than it has been in 40 years. Religion and government are separate and cannot replace each other. So your entire supposition is preposterous.
BTW: The "revolution" you are suggesting would in fact be treason.
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/20/2008 6:26:35 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1271
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quote:
ORIGINAL: catfighter
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
As the USA moves further and further left, taxes will go higher and higher. As religion is replaced with government, more and more laws will be imposed. Would there ever be a time at which it would be ok for the American people to rise up in revolt against their government?
The country is more conservative and more religious than it has been in 40 years. Religion and government are separate and cannot replace each other. So your entire supposition is preposterous.
BTW: The "revolution" you are suggesting would in fact be treason.
I respectfully but adamantly disagree.
Historical precedent demonstrates that a decline in religion means an increase in government and law. Dennis Prager actually speaks and writes quite eloquently on the subject. I will try to find some of his material when I get home.
As far as your claim that the country is "more religious" than ever, you would be correct if you mean that there are more RELIGIONS. Otherwise, your claim is unsubstantiated by fact. Traditional Judeo-Christianity is declining, and liberalism/humanism is ascending.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/21/2008 12:25:04 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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I think it depends on, 1, what is being revolted against, and 2, what means are being used. I would say that I think the American revolution back in the day was unbiblical. Did good things come of it? I believe so, yes, but this wouldn't be the first time God used less-than-ideal circumstances to His purpose.
I believe that any revolution that claims to have a Christian basis, yet uses physical violence, is not truly a Christian-based revolution.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/21/2008 2:15:30 AM
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Hayseed
Posts: 521
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As long as we have the "bipartisan" system we will be on the wrong track. Both the Democratic and Republican party are corrupt.
_____________________________
My entire goal in life is to live exactly like the man who was falsely accused of being a drunkard, heretic and a friend of sinners by the religious people. So, don't be surprised if I'm not too concerned if you think ill of me.
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/21/2008 10:07:54 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hayseed
As long as we have the "bipartisan" system we will be on the wrong track. Both the Democratic and Republican party are corrupt.
I agree that both parties are corrupt, but the two party system is what keeps the good ole USA chugging along and not going down the tubes.
It really concerns me that we may end up with one party controlling the legislative and executive branch of government, because the checks and balances will be upset.
With two more Supreme Court judges soon to be appointed and appointed by the party that is in unchallenged power then the checks and balances will be none exestant.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/21/2008 12:22:01 PM
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SuccessinTruth
Posts: 76
Joined: 9/3/2008
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I believe that civil disobedience is necessary when man's laws conflict with God's. When government denies the Church the right to preach the Gospel as it is written, when it forces doctors, nurses, and pharmacists to be involved in abortions, when it denies people the privilege of prayer, it has overstepped. When our government is this corrupt, then we must choose to disobey man's law and follow God's in these areas.
As for revolution, no. There is no reason to believe that anything good would be accomplished. Not in this day and time. We must simply accept the consequences of a nation that has chosen to walk in disobedience. Those consequences are obvious to anyone who looks with a clear eye.
May we be blessed with wisdom and discernment.
_____________________________
May we Glorify the Lord in all that we say and do
SuccessinTruth
www.mybenefitsplus.com/40623337
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/21/2008 12:34:49 PM
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SweetPea213
Posts: 63
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
I put this in the election folder because it greatly concerns government, taxes, and responsibilities of Christian citizens. If it needs to be moved to somewhere such as Morality & Ethics, please do so!
The question is this: In light of biblical teachings that Christians are to pay their taxes and honor their government so long as that government does not ask them to violate God's law, was it wrong for American patriots to revolt against England over (among other things) taxation?
As the USA moves further and further left, taxes will go higher and higher. As religion is replaced with government, more and more laws will be imposed. Would there ever be a time at which it would be ok for the American people to rise up in revolt against their government?
I know there was a thread floating around about an eventual civil war, but this thread is more interested in the question of the right or wrong of citizens revolting against their government.
I voted yes. I think as American citizens, we have the right to protest and start revolutions. As Christians, we have a responsibility to stand up, protest and start revolutions if our government forces us to do something against God's word.
I don't think it was wrong for the American patriots to revolt against England. The King wanted them to do something they thought was against God's word.
If the government asks us to disobey God, then yes, stand up and start the revolution!
God and His laws trumps any earthly, man-made government.
_____________________________
"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed." ~ 1 Peter 2:24
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/21/2008 12:45:23 PM
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Hayseed
Posts: 521
Joined: 4/15/2006
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You're forgetting that there are other parties out there with people that would probably be better in the jobs we elect them to.
I, for one, am done voting for a person out of fear that if I don't vote for him the other guy will get in.
The parties give you "their" candidates whether you like them or not and then make you fear them NOT getting elected.
Want a peaceful revolution? Vote your conscience, even if it is outside the major party lines. That might even make them listen a little more if you break ranks.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hayseed
As long as we have the "bipartisan" system we will be on the wrong track. Both the Democratic and Republican party are corrupt.
I agree that both parties are corrupt, but the two party system is what keeps the good ole USA chugging along and not going down the tubes.
It really concerns me that we may end up with one party controlling the legislative and executive branch of government, because the checks and balances will be upset.
With two more Supreme Court judges soon to be appointed and appointed by the party that is in unchallenged power then the checks and balances will be none exestant.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
My entire goal in life is to live exactly like the man who was falsely accused of being a drunkard, heretic and a friend of sinners by the religious people. So, don't be surprised if I'm not too concerned if you think ill of me.
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/21/2008 12:52:48 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
With one exception, revolutions have a way of imploding on their designers. It very nearly happened in this country following the colonials' end of combat with Britain.
You said it. The weak national government created by the Articles of Confederation rendered this country practically impotent, and if it hadn't been for the Constitutional Convention of 1787, we'd have split into 13 separate countries and more or less disintegrated. That the Constitution was first written and then ratified was no small miracle, considering how close it often came to be flushed down the tubes.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Is Revolution Wrong? - 10/23/2008 10:32:37 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 377
Joined: 5/7/2007
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I do not believe an arme revolution is wrong in anyway.
So far America has been fortuneate in that we have been able to have a peaceful revolution every four to eight years, through the ballot box. I fear that because of the way the media and many politicians look at politics, our ability to continue to change the course of this country through the ballot box may be numbered. I believe that we are closing in on the day that George Washington warned us about. That day when one party will overpower its opponent and take control of the government and the country, thus taking it down a very nightmarish road it was never meant to go down. A road whose only recourse would be armed revolution.
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