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In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 6:51:27 PM
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solomonsprayer
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http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2008/09/in-defense-of-community-organi.html
A critique from Jim Wallis' blog of Palin and Giuliani (and others) of their negative view of community organizing.
Obama, today, said in an interview that GOP critics seem to not care that he helped many poor and illiterate people get registered to vote and worked in soup kitchens, etc. ...but that the people he helped certainly felt grateful. He said he could have gone to many lucrative jobs after college, but chose to serve the poor.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 6:54:19 PM
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tafkam
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I think it's great that he worked as a CO, but if I were running for PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, I would hope more impressive credits would crowd it out of my resume....
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Tafkam
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:00:49 PM
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LBolt
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Wow!! What a retort! LOL!!
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Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:08:25 PM
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deliveredarling
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If he worked in the soup kitchen's, that means that he knows the real problems of the homeless and destitute, not just "knowing" from a third hand report. And that he's got a heart for the people.
I seriously doubt he did with the intention of putting it on he presidential resume.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:09:58 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
I think it's great that he worked as a CO, but if I were running for PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, I would hope more impressive credits would crowd it out of my resume....
Jesus spent his life doing a kind of street ministry...Christ was also mocked for coming from a humble background (carpenter's son...manual labor) and associating with/preaching to the "wrong kinds of people" (prostitutes, tax collectors, etc.)....People in the elite Roman empire and Jewish leaders regarded Him as a threat, because he was a challenge to the status quo, etc. A significant part of Jesus' experience was working with the less fortunate, but that didn't mean he was incapable of more. He chose to serve those in greatest need through ministry.
I'm not saying Obama is Christ obviously! ...But would Jesus be qualified ot lead our country? What about King Solomon and King David? ...Look at their backgrounds.
Experience is not necessarily good, unless you are successful at it and do it with the right intentions and do it the right way at right time, etc. Look at Bush, who has 8 years of Presidential experience (and was a beneficiary of "white affirmative action" into Harvard and Yale with "C" grades, based on family). But is that "good" experience or "bad" experience? (Just look at what the public thinks.) ...Community organizing counts. I agree with the article's defense of it as solid resume experience. I'm not saying Obama has all-aroud great credentials or reputation etc. ....But do not mock the community organzing experience itself!
< Message edited by solomonsprayer -- 9/5/2008 7:20:01 PM >
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:13:12 PM
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Jhud
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Actually, Obama mostly did political agitating - getting people together to sign petitions, attend city council meetings, strong arm local politicians into doing what they wanted them to. It had very little to do with feeding people or better yet, economically re-vitalizing that part of Chicago so they could feed themselves.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:15:03 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Actually, Obama mostly did political agitating - getting people together to sign petitions, attend city council meetings, strong arm local politicians into doing what they wanted them to. It had very little to do with feeding people or better yet, economically re-vitalizing that part of Chicago so they could feed themselves.
If that's the case, that's fine. Say that and point it out, but dont' bash CO in genreal. As the article/blog post said from the pastor, community organizing itself is not bad. The points the author brings up are actually very enlightening.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:16:18 PM
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deliveredarling
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I heard him say he worked in the soup kitchen's in a interview.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:16:51 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
If that's the case, that's fine. Say that and point it out, but dont' bash CO in genreal. As the article/blog post said from the pastor, community organizing itself is not bad. The points the author brings up are actually very enlightening.
The GOP and critics should just say Obama was a corrupt/bad community organizer if he was. But don't say community organizing itself is bad is what I'm saying.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:20:44 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
If that's the case, that's fine. Say that and point it out, but dont' bash CO in genreal. As the article/blog post said from the pastor, community organizing itself is not bad. The points the author brings up are actually very enlightening.
Who criticized community organizing?
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:22:29 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
Experience is not necessarily good, unless you are successful at it and do it with the right intentions and do it the right way at right time, etc. Look at Bush, who has 8 years of Presidential experience (and was a beneficiary of "white affirmative action" into Harvard and Yale with "C" grades, based on family). But is that "good" experience or "bad" experience? (Just look at what the public thinks.) ...Community organizing counts. I agree with the article's defense of it as solid resume experience. I'm not saying Obama has all-aroud great credentials or reputation etc. ....But do not mock the community organzing experience itself!
I was a bit tough on Bush. Sorry, no offense to anyone. I'm just talking about public image of him. ...But also making the point, in general, that experience itself is not necessarily good. Hitler had experience running Germany. ....see what I mean.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:23:35 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
If that's the case, that's fine. Say that and point it out, but dont' bash CO in genreal. As the article/blog post said from the pastor, community organizing itself is not bad. The points the author brings up are actually very enlightening.
Who criticized community organizing?
Palin ..Giuliani....others, who mockd his experience.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:25:28 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
I was a bit tough on Bush. Sorry, no offense to anyone. I'm just talking about public image of him. ...But also making the point, in general, that experience itself is not necessarily good. Hitler had experience running Germany. ....see what I mean.
Actually you aren't making any sense at all, and you sound like you are comparing Bush to Hitler.
Experience in one's chosen vocation is better than no experience - this is a separate from the issue of whether one is good or evil.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:25:40 PM
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LivingParadox
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I think working and volunteering in a soup kitchen a very good thing to do...
do you think if I volunteer in a soup kitchen, I'll be qualified to be OB's secretary of state?
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:27:48 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LivingParadox
I think working and volunteering in a soup kitchen a very good thing to do...
do you think if I volunteer in a soup kitchen, I'll be qualified to be OB secretary of state?
Maybe if you had other experiences and qualifications, etc. too. It's not just like Obama was a CO....He taught law at UChicago. (Went to Harvard and Columbia for education) Worked as civil rights lawyer. Worked in Senate. Mapped out a philosophical vision of America and its history in two books.
You have to look at his whole package. (I'm not saying even then it is enough...I'm just saying CO is a good qualification looked at poorly)....
See my Jesus example. Would Jesus' experiences qualify Christ to lead a country? Could Jesus have led Rome?
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:28:29 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
I think working and volunteering in a soup kitchen a very good thing to do...
do you think if I volunteer in a soup kitchen, I'll be qualified to be OB's secretary of state?
No, more likely Homeland Security or Commerce.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:29:22 PM
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LivingParadox
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
quote:
ORIGINAL: LivingParadox
I think working and volunteering in a soup kitchen a very good thing to do...
do you think if I volunteer in a soup kitchen, I'll be qualified to be OB secretary of state?
Maybe if you had other experiences and qualifications, etc. too. It's not just like Obama was a CO....He taught law at UChicago. (Went to Harvard and Columbia for education) Worked as civil rights lawyer. Worked in Senate. Mapped out a philosophical vision of American and history in two books.
You have to look at his whole package.
Then Obama needs to play that experience up more so it can be examined. Don't you feel there is a double standard that a PTA member, small town mayor isn't getting the same benefit of the "whole picture"?
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:36:11 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
I was a bit tough on Bush. Sorry, no offense to anyone. I'm just talking about public image of him. ...But also making the point, in general, that experience itself is not necessarily good. Hitler had experience running Germany. ....see what I mean.
Actually you aren't making any sense at all, and you sound like you are comparing Bush to Hitler.
Experience in one's chosen vocation is better than no experience - this is a separate from the issue of whether one is good or evil.
No my point was that merely have experience is not necessarily a good thing. Hitler had experience running a country. Is he qualifed to lead the U.S.? No! (hypothetically)...
Jesus (son of carpenter - manual laborer)...King Solomon (a child at time of leadershi)...King David (farmer)...came from humble backgrounds.....could they lead a nation if need be?
With Bush, let's forget that. You can reread my post if you want for better clarification...What I'm saying with Obama is that if he has good experiences in prior jobs and has shown his abilities across a broad range of occupations, serving people, intellectually (mapping out a history and philosophy of America in two books..teaching law), being a lawyer, being a Senator, etc. ...If those are good experences and he's shown moral leadership, then that is good enough.
Again, I'm not saying he IS good enough per se (I'm undecided), I'm saying that the way we define and discuss experience is not necessarily right many times.
Ok, let's get back to original topic of community organizing! Yay! 
< Message edited by solomonsprayer -- 9/5/2008 7:48:03 PM >
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:40:17 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
No my point was that merely have experience is not necessarily a good thing. Hitler had experience running a country. Is he qualifed to lead the U.S.? No! (hypothetically)...
Jesus (son of carpenter - manual laborer)...King Solomon (a child at time of leadershi)...King David (farmer)...came from humble backgrounds.....could they lead a nation if need be?
With Bush, let's forget that. You can reread my post if you want for better clarification...What I'm saying with Obama is that if he has good experiences in prior jobs and has shown his abilities across a broad range of occupations, serving people, intellectually (mapping out a history and philosophy of America in two books..teaching law), being a lawyer, being a Senator, etc. ...If those are good experences and he's shown moral leadership, then that is good enough.
Again, I'm not saying he IS good enough per se (I'm undecided), I'm not saying that the way we define and discuss experience is not necessarily right many times.
Ok, let's get back to original topic of community organizing!
The debate about Obama's experience really has to do with his campaign's criticism of Palin's experience - if he were a little wiser, he (or his minions) would have welcomed Palin and her experience instead of criticizing it.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:44:00 PM
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LivingParadox
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I think Mike Huckabee said it all in a debate last spring when asked What Jesus would do as president.....
I believe replied -- Jesus would be too smart to run.
Please don't demote Jesus from being Lord of Lords, Kings of Kings to being President of the USA.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:45:19 PM
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csl7037
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I'm just dumbfounded that people can't see Obama for the joke he is. He's an educated, accomplished man, I guess, by a certain standard - but certainly not by any standard that you can apply to a candidate for PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!
quote:
Obama, today, said in an interview that GOP critics seem to not care that he helped many poor and illiterate people get registered to vote and worked in soup kitchens, etc. ...but that the people he helped certainly felt grateful. He said he could have gone to many lucrative jobs after college, but chose to serve the poor.
By his own explanation here, you could put this on par with the experience of Cindy McCain working with refugees and orphans oversease. Except I'm guessing Obama's never slept in a tent in a dessert! So now I'm thinking he's not even qualified enough to be running against Palin - which is what he seems to be doing now because he can't even pretend to stand up against McCain's heroism and patriotism and life experience...but now he can't adequately compare himself to Palin so he's going to run against Cindy McCain??? Don't get me wrong, she's an amazing woman and I wouldn't want to be compared to her...but I'm not running for President! Oh, yea, neither is she! If she were, she'd still be more qualified than Obama! Not as smooth an orator, but that's all Obama's got going for him, is that really our standard for President??
Like I've said before, if he were running for Mayor of Chicago or a county judge's seat, those might be impressive credentials (community organizing, teaching, law)...it's unbelievabley presumptive and absurd that he's running for President!
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:49:03 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LivingParadox
I think Mike Huckabee said it all in a debate last spring when asked What Jesus would do as president.....
I believe replied -- Jesus would be too smart to run.
Please don't demote Jesus from being Lord of Lords, Kings of Kings to being President of the USA.
I'm not doing that. I was making an analogy.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:51:01 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
The debate about Obama's experience really has to do with his campaign's criticism of Palin's experience - if he were a little wiser, he (or his minions) would have welcomed Palin and her experience instead of criticizing it.
So Obama's lack of experience was not a point of discussion before Sarah Palin was chosen for VP?
But I agree that Obama would be better served by not having Palin's supposed lack of experience discussed. Even if Palin does become president (due to McCain's death or incapacitation) he will have already assembled a top flight cabinet and team of advisors to help her through any rough spots she may have.
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:52:59 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
[The debate about Obama's experience really has to do with his campaign's criticism of Palin's experience - if he were a little wiser, he (or his minions) would have welcomed Palin and her experience instead of criticizing it.
I can buy part of that. I know Palin was defending herself against Obama's remarks.
With Obama, though, people said same things about his lack of experience when he was first being vetted and then campaigning to be the Dem nominee...Anyhow, ....um, let's get this thread back to its original intent, which was to defend community organizing.
Actually the other thread "Palin Owes a lot of Good People an Apology" ...in that, Jim Wallis says community organizing can, for some, be interpreted as MORE experience (or impact) than what politicians do....See his detailed explanation.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2008/09/palin-owes-some-good-people-an.html
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RE: In Defense of Community Organizing - 9/5/2008 7:57:14 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
Actually the other thread "Palin Owes a lot of Good People and Apology" ...in that, Jim Wallis says community organizing can, for some, be interpreted as MORE experience than what politicians do....See his detailed explanation. http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2008/09/palin-owes-some-good-people-an.html
Yea, maybe that experience is more valuable that 140-something days voting present in the Senate - still doesn't compare to decades working hard on Legislation, fighting down-and-dirty political battles for your principles one term after another, or even making actual management/executive decisions for an entire state.
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