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Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 1:11:55 AM
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kisstheson
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Ever look at the sanctuaries of some modern churches? There may be a globe or international flags hanging around but there is no cross.
Why are we dissing the cross?
Why is it no longer the focus of our attention?
Why doesn’t the sufferings of Christ spur us on to love, forgiveness and good deeds?
In our efforst to reach out and be seeker friendly why are we hiding the cross?
I have heard people say, "Its because its a religious symbol and turns people off."
ours is the modern age where the cross became an offense in christendom.
When did christians stop wanting to hear about the sufferings of Christ?
This is the first time ever in the history of "the Church" the cross was not the center piece of our religion and lost its power to inspire love and devotion.
< Message edited by kisstheson -- 8/31/2008 3:28:23 AM >
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 2:59:19 AM
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Little_1
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The following article by Charles Spurgeon is really helpful in explaining why the cross is offensive to some:
The offense of the cross
With regards to why is it become an offense to Christiandom? I believe it may be a sign of the times because the Word of God teaches that in the latter days, many will depart from the faith. Could this be what is happening if it Chrisitians are ashamed of the cross being displayed in their place of worship?
On the other hand, the church which I attended (when I became a Christian and before we moved location) does not have any cross on display anywhere and that is not to say that the minister nor congregation are anti-cross or ashamed of the cross. Far from it and quite the opposite in fact! The United Free Church have the plainest of churches (decor wise) so the absense of a cross is not because the church is ashamed of the cross because the cross is mentioned in every sermon (at least in the UF Church I attended).
Something else which may be worth mentioning is that whilst I was attending a Christian college, (when I was a much younger Christian) I was confronted by another Christian because I was wearing a gold necklace cross. I was told by them that Christ did not die on a gold cross and that my cross necklace was offensive to them and quite a few others. Needless to say, I did not wear it at college any time after this but I found this strange at the time. Christ may not have died on a gold cross but what His cross accomplished for me (and many millions more) is even more precious than gold. I think we can perhaps put too much emphasis on 'symbolism'. It is not what is on or not on outward display regarding crosses that matters but what is in the heart of the believer(s) that is important and if any Christian church truly has Christ at the heart of their faith - then there is perhaps no real concerns due.
The Word of God does not actually say that our churches should display crosses. This may have become a 'tradition' handed down over the centuries.
< Message edited by Little_1 -- 8/31/2008 3:42:35 AM >
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 8:35:55 AM
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mvic
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I agree with Kisstheson in that Christianity is in retreat and many Christians are perhaps concerned to say/show that they are Christians.
I'm not commenting directly about the absence of a Cross in some churches. But I feel that the Church and its hierarchies are watering down Christianity in their sermons, in what they teach and in what they represent/stand for.
They are probably doing this to adapt with modern lifestyles and outlooks, and to ensure they don't drive away potential "customers".
In my view this is wrong.
Better to uphold the Word of God and have a few followers, than to adapt it to such an extent that it means nothing and have the world follow you.
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 9:56:55 AM
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URForgiven
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If we are looking for a "Christian" symbol in our sanctuaries, my question is, "why is there no empty tomb?"
Peace
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"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 10:02:06 AM
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armydude
Posts: 16842
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
Ever look at the sanctuaries of some modern churches? There may be a globe or international flags hanging around but there is no cross.
Why are we dissing the cross?
Why is it no longer the focus of our attention?
Why doesn’t the sufferings of Christ spur us on to love, forgiveness and good deeds?
In our efforst to reach out and be seeker friendly why are we hiding the cross?
I have heard people say, "Its because its a religious symbol and turns people off."
ours is the modern age where the cross became an offense in christendom.
When did christians stop wanting to hear about the sufferings of Christ?
This is the first time ever in the history of "the Church" the cross was not the center piece of our religion and lost its power to inspire love and devotion.
Maybe it's just me, but I haven't seen that around my area.
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 3:28:18 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
If we are looking for a "Christian" symbol in our sanctuaries, my question is, "why is there no empty tomb?"
A splendid point!
While there is certainly nothing wrong with having a cross in the church, there is also no command in Scripture for such a thing. I think that our insistence on it springs from tradition, not God's command. Just because a physical cross is not present does not mean that the teaching of the cross, Christ's sacrifice, death, and resurrection (which, as URforgiven pointed out, is not accomplished through a physical cross) is not being taught.
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A field without a fence.
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And I've thanked you ever since.
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 3:30:16 PM
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armydude
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Another good point is that we're to preach the cross, live at the foot of the cross, and love the work done on the cross.
Never read anything about wearing a crucifix.
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 3:46:37 PM
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colliefan
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Do we understand the message of the cross? What would happen if a church were to place an electric chair at the front of the sanctuary?
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 3:49:23 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Do we understand the message of the cross? What would happen if a church were to place an electric chair at the front of the sanctuary?
Well you'd always be able to find a chair up front...
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You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 4:59:04 PM
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deliveredarling
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Is the absence of a cross an implication that it is not a Christ focused church? I don't think so. For some I think it's the epitome of a rabbit's foot.
They believe that a cross around their neck or in their house will keep them safe. Or sleeping with a bible will keep the bad dreams away.
The cross is symbolic for what Christ achieved for us. The cross itself is also called the death stake.
Death on the cross. Dead sins on the cross, translate to eternal life for us as believer's.
URF made a fabulous point! Life everlasting after He rose. Why isn't the empty tomb an important symbol to us too?
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 5:20:16 PM
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kisstheson
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quote:
When did christians stop wanting to hear about the sufferings of Christ?
This is the first time ever in the history of "the Church" the cross was not the center piece of our religion and lost its power to inspire love and devotion.
Some of you have proved my point.
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 5:20:59 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
quote:
When did christians stop wanting to hear about the sufferings of Christ?
This is the first time ever in the history of "the Church" the cross was not the center piece of our religion and lost its power to inspire love and devotion.
Some of you have proved my point.
And that point was?
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 9:42:47 PM
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SonInMe1
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The cross is a roman torture device.
Its like asking your church to have an electric chair in their sanctuary.
The work on the cross wasn't done by the cross...it was done by our Lord, the Christ, Jesus.
I celebrate the life, death and life of Christ Jesus, not the form of torture He endured to fulfil the prophecies and to be our Messiah. The pain suffered for us was not endured by the cross. The shed blood did not come from the cross. The attonement won did not come from the cross.
To me, to celebrate the cross is to celebrate the people who put Christ there and how our Lord died. The message isn't that Christ died.
He is alive!!! That...is the gospel.
I think many churches preach a dead Christ and celebrate it with a dead tortured Christ on a cross in their church. To me, that is very offensive.
My Lord is alive. Its what seperates Him from every other "prophet" or religious leader.
Its like cooking a great meal....throwing the food away....and sit there staring at the stove saying, " Boy that food sure is good ".
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 8/31/2008 11:26:13 PM
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Walker311
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The cross is an inanimate reminder. Nothing more nothing less... that is until I see it displayed between the breasts of a heathen who has no desire to present IT as a witness but as an attention grabber.
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 9/1/2008 1:26:33 AM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
quote:
When did christians stop wanting to hear about the sufferings of Christ?
This is the first time ever in the history of "the Church" the cross was not the center piece of our religion and lost its power to inspire love and devotion.
Some of you have proved my point.
And that point was?
my quote that you quoted. :)
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 9/1/2008 1:28:46 AM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Walker311
The cross is an inanimate reminder. Nothing more nothing less... that is until I see it displayed between the breasts of a heathen who has no desire to present IT as a witness but as an attention grabber.
I'm talking about Christians dissing the cross and the sufferings of Christ. not heathens. Why are christians not presenting the message of the cross in the gospel they preach?
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 9/1/2008 1:33:01 AM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
The cross is a roman torture device.
Its like asking your church to have an electric chair in their sanctuary.
The work on the cross wasn't done by the cross...it was done by our Lord, the Christ, Jesus.
I celebrate the life, death and life of Christ Jesus, not the form of torture He endured to fulfil the prophecies and to be our Messiah. The pain suffered for us was not endured by the cross. The shed blood did not come from the cross. The attonement won did not come from the cross.
To me, to celebrate the cross is to celebrate the people who put Christ there and how our Lord died. The message isn't that Christ died.
He is alive!!! That...is the gospel.
I think many churches preach a dead Christ and celebrate it with a dead tortured Christ on a cross in their church. To me, that is very offensive.
My Lord is alive. Its what seperates Him from every other "prophet" or religious leader.
Its like cooking a great meal....throwing the food away....and sit there staring at the stove saying, " Boy that food sure is good ".
Only in this generation are christians not seeing the significance of the cross...
remember this old hymn?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a hill far away stood an old rugged cross,
the emblem of suffering and shame;
and I love that old cross where the dearest and best
for a world of lost sinners was slain.
Refrain:
So I'll cherish the old rugged cross,
till my trophies at last I lay down;
I will cling to the old rugged cross,
and exchange it some day for a crown.
O that old rugged cross, so despised by the world,
has a wondrous attraction for me;
for the dear Lamb of God left his glory above
to bear it to dark Calvary. Refrain
In that old rugged cross, stained with blood so divine,
a wondrous beauty I see,
for 'twas on that old cross Jesus suffered and died,
to pardon and sanctify me. Refrain
To the old rugged cross I will ever be true;
its shame and reproach gladly bear;
then he'll call me some day to my home far away,
where his glory forever I'll share. Refrain
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 9/1/2008 2:50:39 AM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1051
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
The cross is a roman torture device.
Its like asking your church to have an electric chair in their sanctuary.
The work on the cross wasn't done by the cross...it was done by our Lord, the Christ, Jesus.
I celebrate the life, death and life of Christ Jesus, not the form of torture He endured to fulfil the prophecies and to be our Messiah. The pain suffered for us was not endured by the cross. The shed blood did not come from the cross. The attonement won did not come from the cross.
To me, to celebrate the cross is to celebrate the people who put Christ there and how our Lord died. The message isn't that Christ died.
He is alive!!! That...is the gospel.
I think many churches preach a dead Christ and celebrate it with a dead tortured Christ on a cross in their church. To me, that is very offensive.
My Lord is alive. Its what seperates Him from every other "prophet" or religious leader.
Its like cooking a great meal....throwing the food away....and sit there staring at the stove saying, " Boy that food sure is good ".
the bible does not set the example of not mentioning or considering the cross, or remembering only the risen Jesus. it's a package. that He is alive is not the whole gospel. He died a specific death and accomplished THROUGH his death and suffering.
"the cross" is said throughout the NT.
1Co 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.
1Co 1:18
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Mt 16:24
Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
Ga 6:14
But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Eph 2:16
and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity .
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there's life in a pit.
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 9/1/2008 7:05:09 AM
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kisstheson
Posts: 965
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
The cross is a roman torture device.
Its like asking your church to have an electric chair in their sanctuary.
The work on the cross wasn't done by the cross...it was done by our Lord, the Christ, Jesus.
I celebrate the life, death and life of Christ Jesus, not the form of torture He endured to fulfil the prophecies and to be our Messiah. The pain suffered for us was not endured by the cross. The shed blood did not come from the cross. The attonement won did not come from the cross.
To me, to celebrate the cross is to celebrate the people who put Christ there and how our Lord died. The message isn't that Christ died.
He is alive!!! That...is the gospel.
I think many churches preach a dead Christ and celebrate it with a dead tortured Christ on a cross in their church. To me, that is very offensive.
My Lord is alive. Its what seperates Him from every other "prophet" or religious leader.
Its like cooking a great meal....throwing the food away....and sit there staring at the stove saying, " Boy that food sure is good ".
the bible does not set the example of not mentioning or considering the cross, or remembering only the risen Jesus. it's a package. that He is alive is not the whole gospel. He died a specific death and accomplished THROUGH his death and suffering.
"the cross" is said throughout the NT.
1Co 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.
1Co 1:18
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Mt 16:24
Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
Ga 6:14
But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Eph 2:16
and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity .
Thank you...
Jesus also asked us to remember what He had done for us. "This is My body..This My blood...Do this in remberance of Me."
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 9/1/2008 9:06:18 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1075
Joined: 3/22/2008
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Jesus and His resurrected life...is our salvation. The Church has stressed the death of Christ to the exclusion of the resurrection of Christ. And we are not saved through Christ's death, we are saved through His resurrected life...
Romans 5:10
"For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life"
The cross is important, in that, it is what made it possible for us to be saved, by reconciling us to God. But it is not salvation. The wages of sin is death, and the only solution to death is life...
1 Corinthians 15:14,17
"If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith...if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins."
Jesus Christ is alive! The reason Jesus is the only way is because Jesus alone has life. He is the solution to mans problem, and mans problem is that he is dead and needs life...
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 9/1/2008 11:09:01 AM
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OLEEguacamole
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there was a PRICE paid and we are to continue to remember and honor that price. that is what communion is all about. remembering the CROSS.
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 9/1/2008 11:27:41 AM
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Walker311
Posts: 1464
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
I'm talking about Christians dissing the cross and the sufferings of Christ.
This statement lumps all Christians together and is not valid. The message is the cross and omission or continuous denial leads to a dead ministry... in time. So, what you may be seeing could be localized but not universal unless of course you have proof.
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 9/2/2008 12:58:18 AM
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kisstheson
Posts: 965
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From: AOL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
there was a PRICE paid and we are to continue to remember and honor that price. that is what communion is all about. remembering the CROSS.
You are absolutely right.
"I determined to know nothing among you but Jesus Christ and him crucified.' -the apostle paul
Never is the history of Christendom did christians not want to focus on what christ did for them.
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 9/2/2008 1:01:40 AM
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kisstheson
Posts: 965
Joined: 5/1/2006
From: AOL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Walker311
quote:
I'm talking about Christians dissing the cross and the sufferings of Christ.
This statement lumps all Christians together and is not valid. The message is the cross and omission or continuous denial leads to a dead ministry... in time. So, what you may be seeing could be localized but not universal unless of course you have proof.
I see am alarming trend. many modern churches are no longer displaying the cross. that is one example. When I try to talk about His sufferings immediately I hear the response..."The Resurrection is more important."
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Christians dissing the cross - 9/2/2008 6:45:38 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1935
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
."The Resurrection is more important."
That's a new one on me. I hadn't
t heard that until URF brought it up in this thread. It's a good and valid point. I don't think one negates the other.
The cross in and of itself has become a form of idol worship.
It has become accessory even no Christians where, not having a clue the meaning of the symbol itself.
It has been given a power it does not deserve. The object itself holds no power, yet certain circles give a power to ward of spirits.
The cross is only one aspect of the whole story. We aren't telling the whole truth if we focus on only the one aspect. Without the resurrection, there is no hope for life everlasting. The whole story must be told.
I am not for or against crosses in churches. Is it a disturbibg sign that there are less of them now?
Not really. I don't see many churches that don't have a cross.
Then again, it wouldn't disturb me either. Nowhere in the Bible are we told to sport a cross on our churches.
The cross doesn't define who we are, Jesus in us, however does.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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