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Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/29/2008 5:40:04 PM
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SeminoleTom
Posts: 38
Joined: 4/12/2005
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What does your church do to help the poor? Should Christians make an extra effort to help those who need help? I'm very curious as to what you all do to help those in need?
I ask because a little bothered about what my church is doing. They are adding another wing to the building that costs $3million. Do you know how much that would help the inner city homeless? I'm not saying we should give it all to them but I just think Jesus would rather us do that and give the needy a bible for example (along with food, supplies, etc).
What do you think?
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/29/2008 5:47:28 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1841
Status: offline
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quote:
What does your church do to help the poor? Should Christians make an extra effort to help those who need help? I'm very curious as to what you all do to help those in need?
I ask because a little bothered about what my church is doing. They are adding another wing to the building that costs $3million. Do you know how much that would help the inner city homeless? I'm not saying we should give it all to them but I just think Jesus would rather us do that and give the needy a bible for example (along with food, supplies, etc).
What do you think?
There is no easy answer to your question.
What I first think of is the woman who annointed Jesus with the oil and was told this money could have been given to or spent on the poor. And you know Jesus' response.
It all comes down to the heart motivations for doing what we do. Money cannot solve people's problems. Only Christ can. That is the need of every man's heart. Do we believe that? Do we live what we believe?
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/29/2008 5:56:08 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 899
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
What does your church do to help the poor? Should Christians make an extra effort to help those who need help? I'm very curious as to what you all do to help those in need?
I ask because a little bothered about what my church is doing. They are adding another wing to the building that costs $3million. Do you know how much that would help the inner city homeless? I'm not saying we should give it all to them but I just think Jesus would rather us do that and give the needy a bible for example (along with food, supplies, etc).
What do you think?
There is no easy answer to your question.
What I first think of is the woman who annointed Jesus with the oil and was told this money could have been given to or spent on the poor. And you know Jesus' response.
It all comes down to the heart motivations for doing what we do. Money cannot solve people's problems. Only Christ can. That is the need of every man's heart. Do we believe that? Do we live what we believe?
Once again I agree with Liveloved. Always on point.
When I read the OP, my first thought was, woah, a wing that costs 3 mil, how big is your church. When I thought about the my response I thought maybe your church needs more room due to the amount of people in attendance.
My reaction is yes, there are better things to do with the money than build a wing on the church.
But I agree that it comes down to the heart of the matter, and why it is being done.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/30/2008 1:59:39 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 978
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
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To the question asked in the subject line, the answer is an undoubted yes.
To the specific example given, I would need to be a part of the situation. If your church attendance is exploding and you need to make more space, go ahead and raise the money to build onto the church. If however your church is "building it in faith" that more people are going to come... I would think that the money could have been better spent in ministering to the poor. I know in my old church, they were raising a half million dollars for a building project that would have given the Senior Pastors (who only spent three days a week in the building) a brand new offices and library/den/meeting place that was seperate from all the other offices. To that, I would say that the $500 large should have been spent more wisely.
Why raise an edifice to holiness when such a thing does not exist in the surrounding environment?
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/30/2008 2:00:05 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
What does your church do to help the poor? Should Christians make an extra effort to help those who need help? I'm very curious as to what you all do to help those in need?
I ask because a little bothered about what my church is doing. They are adding another wing to the building that costs $3million. Do you know how much that would help the inner city homeless? I'm not saying we should give it all to them but I just think Jesus would rather us do that and give the needy a bible for example (along with food, supplies, etc).
What do you think?
Of course we can!
The Bible has over a 1000 verses about the poor and needy. One that I don't see a lot of Christians doing is
Pro 31:9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.
I see FARRRR toooo many Christians cheerleading the rich. Or chasing riches, etc.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/30/2008 4:27:17 AM
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Little_1
Posts: 1461
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SeminoleTom
What does your church do to help the poor? Should Christians make an extra effort to help those who need help? I'm very curious as to what you all do to help those in need?
I ask because a little bothered about what my church is doing. They are adding another wing to the building that costs $3million. Do you know how much that would help the inner city homeless? I'm not saying we should give it all to them but I just think Jesus would rather us do that and give the needy a bible for example (along with food, supplies, etc).
What do you think?
In the days of King Solomon, the temple of God was not spared any expense in it's creation. Only the best of the best was used in it's construction (which was guided by God). Here perhaps is an answer, i.e. 'construction under the guidance of God'. If you have any concerns, perhaps you should speak to the church leaders 'as a matter of interest' and ask them how God guided them to go ahead with the added wing and hopefully, this will put your mind more at rest.
I can understand where you are coming from and your concerns that the money could be put to better use elsewhere but I believe there is something even more important which perhaps needs to be considered also:
As Liveloved wisely (and discerningly) pointed out in her post, money is not going to solve the world's problems. Money will not solve the world's problems because the world's problems begin and end with our hearts! A change of heart towards God and what His Word teaches (starting with God's own children) will make more of an impact on the world because a change of heart will take care of the divisions which money creates between the rich and the poor as well as more importantly pointing souls in the direction of the One who truly makes a difference in all walks of life - whether rich or poor.
Poor people don't just need money - they need respect, kindness, to feel they are of worth, (((((( LOVED )))))) ......
It may also be worth considering that a person may be poor (in terms of what the world considers poor) and yet be rich towards God. So 'money' has nothing to do with 'true riches'. Money is not the primary answer to poverty - a change in heart towards God will make more impact than money alone; however, a change in heart towards God will also change our hearts about money ironically!
The following text comes to mind:
2 Chronicles 7:14
"if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land."
If there was revival in our land(s), I believe those in need of food and clothing would be amongst the first to herald their needs having been met both in practical terms as well as spiritual.
< Message edited by Little_1 -- 9/30/2008 8:53:43 AM >
_____________________________
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/30/2008 6:38:13 AM
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makarizo
Posts: 2980
Joined: 4/13/2005
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1st John 3:17 is so crystal clear about this,
1Jn 3:17 But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?
this was the difference between the sheep and the goats.
_____________________________
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/30/2008 6:46:28 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3424
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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Our building campaign is not called that. Its a people campaign.
4000 people with a 900 seat auditorium cries for extra space. ( 7 services a week )
A 12 million dollar budget created the first church. ( we were less than a thousand when we moved into the new church )
A 15 million dollar budget for the next church. In conjunction with the "old" church.
Its a lot of money. However, every donation is above the tithe. Included in our tithe are many programs which help people in need wether its physical or spiritual. Food banks and crisis pregancy centers and addiction counciling. We even tithe to other churches.
Sometimes I think the poor are helped too much in this country. There are many stories of people coming to the food pantry in nice cars and 100 dollar haircuts and jewelry. ( In fact, if you regularily attend our food pantry a pastor will have a little talk with you. Its for emergency situations, not a lifestyle )
We also do homeless ministries.
Yes big churches have their problems...they also greatly finance the kingdom.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/30/2008 9:18:53 AM
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SeminoleTom
Posts: 38
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Maybe I need to clarify some things:
1. By helping the poor and money I'm not talking about going to the inner city and handing out $100 bills to everyone that needs them. But there are homeless out there and a lot of them go hungry/thirsty everyday. Would Jesus feed them? Something tells me yes he would along with a "come follow me..." statement. That is why I think some food and a bible or "Jesus loves you" statement may fit the need here.
2. The building expansion is for a brand new wing that will house more classrooms for Sunday School and for the youth programs. Our church has 2,500 members and is a good size to begin with.
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/30/2008 9:32:21 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1359
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
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quote:
I ask because a little bothered about what my church is doing. They are adding another wing to the building that costs $3million. Do you know how much that would help the inner city homeless?
There would be nothing worse....than to have people come to your church, and then be turned away because there was no room for them....it's full.
My church is adding on, as well. Our children's ministry building is bursting at the seams. We're just now finishing a massive addition (i really don't know the cost...I would guess $10 or so million probably).....included in that are going to be several classrooms built SPECIFICALLY for the church's "SPECIAL NEEDS" ministry for children and adults. (building rooms like that are not cheap)....
YES...we could forgo that and say "give to the poor"....but, what about the thousands who come to the church each and every week? That addition, like others mentioned, is NOT COMING from "general funds"...it's coming from giving "OVER AND ABOVE" regular tithing....
So, what does MY church do for the poor?
• Pregnancy Crisis: The Pregnancy Center is a faith-based non-profit organization providing guidance, education and selected medical services to women and families in unplanned pregnancies. Sonograms, counseling, pregnancy tests, etc..etc...at NO CHARGE....
• Apartment Churches: Our church entirely supports 5 "inner city" apartment churches....small groups that provide Bible study and worship for individuals and families in or near low-income apartment communities. Apartment Churches typically meet at the most optimum time for residents and lay-workers. What goes on there: Bible Study and Worship: working closely with apartment managers, each complex has Bible studies for children, teenagers and adults .
* Servant Evangelism: after school programs such as parenting classes, tutoring, recreational activities, literacy and computer classes are conducted based upon the needs of the community. In addition, there are job training and job placement opportunities through H.I.S. BridgeBuilders. * Special Events: community wide evangelistic cookouts, Mission Vacation Bible School, camps, retreats and other special activities are held throughout the year.
• Our Benevolence Ministry seeks to minister to individuals and families within our community who come to us with crisis needs. An application for assistance, available at the Guest Services area in the Atrium, must be completed before the process can begin. A Benevolence Ministry volunteer will be in contact with those who complete an application. Many times, our volunteers not only have the privilege of helping meet physical needs, but also the spiritual needs of those in crisis. (I PERSONALLY have been helped in this way....about 5 years ago, I lost my job.....before I knew it, envelopes from church started arriving in my mail box. $100 gift cards to Wal-Mart, and other grocery stores....and gas stations.)
• Open each year for two days in December, the Christmas Store helps meet the needs of those within our church or community who have legitimate needs. Located at the church, the store is filled with new items donated by our church for children, teens and adults.Families in need purchase the donated items as Christmas gifts for one-fourth the original price. This "help-up" as opposed to a "hand-out" approach offers a fresh way for church members to share in the joy of giving while preserving the self-respect and dignity of those in need. Through the Christmas Store, needy parents have the pleasure of giving their children new gifts at prices they can afford. This allows children to see their parents as providers, and at the same time, the family is strengthened. Money received from purchases is used by our City Mission ministries.
• Located on the northwest corner of our church property, our Food Pantry and Clothes Closet are in place to help meet the physical needs of those who are hurting. Each week, Prestonwood volunteers distribute hundreds of articles of clothing and food to those who have met specified criteria for need. This on-site facility serves as a distribution center for our Apartment Churches.
• LITERACY: This ministry reaches out to those with limited literacy abilities by teaching them how to read and write, English as a Second Language (ESL), and certain cultural skills. At the same time, it provides a wonderful way to share the love of Jesus Christ and the life-changing message of the Gospel.
• Does YOUR church participate in Franklin Graham's "OPERATION CHRISTMAS CHILD"? The "Shoebox" ministry that sends "Gifts" overseas? Each year, our church collects 38,000 boxes every year from OUR church members.
• Bridge Builders: The fantastic "inner city" ministry has even been "awarded" honors from the City of Dallas for it's effectiveness. What do they do?
1. Encouragement - The base of this program consists of teams providing weekly support for those in our ministry. We also provide monthly events and periodic special events for the community.
2. Education - Our education program provides training for participants to receive a GED and continue into college. We support the GED courses and college entrance courses with computer classes, life-skills classes and tutoring.
3. Employment - Our employment program currently includes an eye clinic and lens lab (operated and run by VOLUNTEERS from the church who are Ophthalmologists and optometrists). These not only offer a valuable service to the community, but also provide skills for residents who are trained in the lab and various positions in the clinic.
So, that is a BRIEF run down of what our church does "for the poor".....sure, we have a nice church building, almost a million square feet....but, again, it would be worse to turn people away for lack of space...and, most of the facilities are in use 7 days a week...from sun up, until well after sundown.
All of these missions take up a considerable portion of our church's $40 Million annual budget.
Now....we have this list (which only touches the surface) of our innercity missions to those who are less fortunate than us.....
IN ADDITION...our church also has awesome ministries for those who are on the OTHER END of the spectrum, as well.....those dealing with issues related to those experiencing "upward mobility" and are a part of the "emerging affluent".....and, who are wealthy.....everyone has unique issues and trials they are facing, not just the poor...and, our church ministers to ALL segments of the population....and, I think, does a phenomenal job in doing so.
TRACYDOLLS seems to think there's something wrong with Christians being successful and wealthy. If it weren't for the hardworking, wealthy (AND GENEROUS) people in our church, MANY of the ministries I mentioned would not be possible. There are some that are entirely "underwritten" by a single family. Which, decreases the financial burden of the church.
ONE LAST THOUGHT:
"Work hard and cheerfully at all you do, just as though you were working for the Lord and not merely for your masters." [Colossians 3:23]
"Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free." [Ephesians 6:7-8]
For almost all Christians I know who are wealthy, they did NOT "Chase riches" or "pursue wealth"......they simply followed those two passages of scripture....and remained obedient to Him...and followed God's plan for their lives.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/30/2008 9:47:40 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1841
Status: offline
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quote:
Maybe I need to clarify some things:
1. By helping the poor and money I'm not talking about going to the inner city and handing out $100 bills to everyone that needs them. But there are homeless out there and a lot of them go hungry/thirsty everyday. Would Jesus feed them? Something tells me yes he would along with a "come follow me..." statement. That is why I think some food and a bible or "Jesus loves you" statement may fit the need here.
2. The building expansion is for a brand new wing that will house more classrooms for Sunday School and for the youth programs. Our church has 2,500 members and is a good size to begin with.
Again I point us back to Jesus. Jesus did not run a soup kitchen. And He could have. He could have fed the masses continually. He did not. He also said the poor you will always have with you.
People's hearts are what Jesus ministered to---not their stomachs or their fiscal needs. When friends come back from mission trips, they are amazed at the happiness, the real joy of the new believers they befriend. These people have NOTHING in terms of material goods but they are happy in Jesus. They have received what satisfies.
It is Jesus we need to live. It is Jesus we need to give. He is the need meeter. 
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/30/2008 10:47:31 AM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 221
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SeminoleTom
......................I ask because a little bothered about what my church is doing. They are adding another wing to the building that costs $3million. Do you know how much that would help the inner city homeless? I'm not saying we should give it all to them but I just think Jesus would rather us do that and give the needy a bible for example (along with food, supplies, etc).
What do you think?
I think that I am vividly remembering the day that precisely the same thing happened to me & when I voiced those exact words in a board meeting, a woman shook her head and said.....
quote:
"Oh how sweet to have such a simple minded approach."
and they quickly resumed their arguing.
I left and never went back to that church. I feel that my simple mind has helped to feed many an impoverished person since that day 18 years ago & the congregation at that church has enjoyed many a meal among themselves in that parish hall since they built it.
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/30/2008 3:43:36 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 711
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: online
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quote:
Should Christians make an extra effort to help those who need help?
Our charity is the megaphone that raises our message above the babble of mere noise. Yet, as a wise pastor pointed out (see George Grant's books on the subject. You can download them for free from this site.) -- the poor can only, ultimately, be fed from the table of the Lord. We minister to the poor by bringing them into the family, working with them through the Word, the Sacraments, and fellowship to transform debilitating habits and sinful dispositions, and focusing our efforts on the deserving poor.
There are cases when giving stuff to poor folks is forbidden by God's Word. Our God tells us, "If any man will not work, neither let him eat."
Government "charity" screens recipients by their willingness to stand in line and suck up to the poverty professionals who earn decent middle-class incomes out of most of the money the government throws in the direction of "poverty."
Godly charity also screens recipients. God requires us to expect something from them, beginning with a willingness to work, over a prolonged period of time, in order to quit being poor. We treat the poor as those who bear the image of the Creator, the God who works. Not like zoo animals.
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/30/2008 4:52:37 PM
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SeminoleTom
Posts: 38
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
quote:
Should Christians make an extra effort to help those who need help?
Our charity is the megaphone that raises our message above the babble of mere noise. Yet, as a wise pastor pointed out (see George Grant's books on the subject. You can download them for free from this site.) -- the poor can only, ultimately, be fed from the table of the Lord. We minister to the poor by bringing them into the family, working with them through the Word, the Sacraments, and fellowship to transform debilitating habits and sinful dispositions, and focusing our efforts on the deserving poor.
There are cases when giving stuff to poor folks is forbidden by God's Word. Our God tells us, "If any man will not work, neither let him eat."
Government "charity" screens recipients by their willingness to stand in line and suck up to the poverty professionals who earn decent middle-class incomes out of most of the money the government throws in the direction of "poverty."
Godly charity also screens recipients. God requires us to expect something from them, beginning with a willingness to work, over a prolonged period of time, in order to quit being poor. We treat the poor as those who bear the image of the Creator, the God who works. Not like zoo animals.
Ok so it looks almost everyone agrees that Christians should not just give food/money to the poor. Why? Probably because we would be taken advanatage of and the desired results (bringing those to Christ) would not be accomplished.
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RE: Can Christians do more to help the poor? - 9/30/2008 8:20:27 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2750
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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For the most part, my church consists of what one would call wealthy individuals. But they are incredibly giving individuals, we managed to complete a building program the firm hired to run our capital campaign said was impossible.
I lead my church's outreach to women just entering the prison system and I am laying the foundation to help them when they are released.
A significant number of our parishoners give signficant time and money to two inner city ministries that help mentor at risk children.
We are partnering with another church in ministering to refugees from Mymar.
We are partnering with another ministry that helps the poor develop attutides toward work that will make them valued employees.
Our pastor has a heart for minstering to the inner city that goes past just giving the poor a sack of food.
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