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Accountability? - 9/15/2008 12:41:12 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 4034
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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This subject touches on a lot of areas and perhaps could have been in any one of a half-dozen different threads.
I have read about pastors teaching blatant doctrinal error and promoting sinful life styles.
I have read about dating or engaged couples struggling to stay pure in their relationship.
I have read about spousal rape.
I have read about abusive language between spouses.
I have read about child abuse (physical, emotional and sexual).
The thing is, the people behind all this stuff claim to be believers and are committed to living biblically.
Who is in their life that can call them to account and "hold their feet to the fire" so-to-speak to get them to clean up their act?
Pastors? Elders or Deacons? Counselors? Parents?
The thing is, we don't want to be accountable to anyone "but God," and in that we fool ourselves. God established congregational leadership to call the membership into account. (read Heb 13)
Any ideas on how to establish a meaningful degree of accountability in relationships? Sometimes an engaged couple will ask someone to be their accountability partner for a while, i.e. until the marriage. But what about after?
Are you accountable to someone if you get abusive with your spouse or children?
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Accountability? - 9/15/2008 5:48:42 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1011
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Accountability is crazy-hard in our culture. I don't know the answer.
When people are confronted (if they don't want to be) they react by fighting or running away -- both of which make a continuing accountability relationship impossible.
So, accountability must be something people choose... So how do we create an atmosphere where accountability is normal and lone-ranger-ness is suspect?
Ideas: Start by indoctrinating children? Start by setting an example as leaders? Get into the accountability structures while times are good, so that they will be in place when people really need them? Become willing to risk going through some lashing out or loss of friends? Learn how to do this well, so that it's not so threatening? Learn how to do this righteously so that the intensity of trust and the presence of power in the relationship does not corrupt it?
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RE: Accountability? - 9/15/2008 6:37:05 PM
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SuccessinTruth
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It's been my experience that people who are guilty of living in a manner that is completely at odds with the Bible don't want to be held accountable, they'll even go so far as to join a church that teaches that people don't need to be held accountable to traditional Christian values. Or make every excuse imaginable to justify their behavior.
We can't fix other people, all we can do is see that it's right in our sphere. Make ourselves accountable to someone, raise our children to be accountable, make certain that our church has an accountability program as a whole, and in men's, women's and youth groups. And when our political leaders act in a reprehensible fashion either in a personal action or by passing a law, speak out, instead of staying silent.
And above all, as always, pray! That is always the least, most and best that can be done. This world will get worse, not better. But we must not let that happen to the bride.
_____________________________
May we Glorify the Lord in all that we say and do
SuccessinTruth
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RE: Accountability? - 9/15/2008 9:52:04 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1845
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Some churches will have pastors/elders who will hold people accountable. My church does this, and I know there are others. Our elders worked with a guy who was a habitual drunkard (he had been an elder in another church before he moved here, and the elders asked him to step down). After a year of working with him (one elder, who lived next door to him, took him out to coffee every morning for months, counseled him, prayed with him, helped him). After a year of this, the elders reluctantly had to admit this guy was unrepentant, and they excommunicated him. The guy walked out of church and everyone was sobbing. After a year of staying sober, they recommuncated him, and we threw a spontaneous party! Tears and hugging, the works. He was restored to full fellowship and high regard, and is much loved.
The clout of civil authority is taking a person's property or life; the clout of the Church is excommunication. The goal is to have the person see what it is like to be outside of God's Kingdom (we shun the person) and realize being in God's family is more important than satisfying the flesh, and have them repent and return to the fold. A "severe mercy" as it is. It's really rough on everyone, but some people repent and stop sinning.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Accountability? - 9/16/2008 11:12:17 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4034
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
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Some good suggestions here.
In our congregation, the leaders (Sr cong. leader, elders, deacons) are interviewed (annualy I think) as are their families and close friends to see how they are doing, how the family is doing, if they are drifting off, etc. I understand they do ask some pretty hard questions. I understand this was put into place after a previous Senior Congregational Leader did a moral crash and burn several years before we went there.
I see this as good and Godly. I would like to see something like this for the rest of the congregation as well.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Accountability? - 9/16/2008 4:41:28 PM
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evryknee
Posts: 282
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You can't hold a fool accountable (they won't listen), but a wise man or woman can be held accountable because they wish to be accountable and godly at all times. I had an accountability partner, but he moved. I had another one, but he doesn't hold me accountable. PTL that I have continued to be victorious through JC. When I am struggling in my heart, I know to speak to my pastor, as I know that he will check on me and just sharing any struggle reduces any struggle.
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RE: Accountability? - 9/16/2008 11:15:07 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5953
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Wow Dave, a very excellent subject!
In this day and age, and I am saying this as a person who has been a Big City Girl my entire life, the ability to run around in life completely anonymous is a big thing. At least in the big cities. We go to work, road rage envelopes people because they feel "who cares, I won't ever see those people again". We go shopping, who cares how we act "we won't ever see those people again". We go to church, who knows whether you really went or not because these megachurches - how likely is it you are going to run into someone you know anyway?
God placed me in a position at a job for what I believe the purpose of was to meet the woman whom I refer to as my spiritual mom. The chances of ever having met her any other way is zip. Before joining the church she went to, during the time I went there, and even when I started going to another church, she has been there to ask me "How are things going?" We know each other well enough, that even if she isn't asking something personal, it is still implied. I cannot ever have a conversation with her, or even think about her, without feeling a level of accountability. I have another very special friend whom I speak with on a daily basis, with whom I also feel a high level of accountability.
These friends are extremely important to me ... mainly because they are Godly people in my life. They are very special to me and close to my heart. And when I think about them, God is the cement in these relationships, and my mind does a little scan "What am I doing that I shouldn't be doing? What am I thinking that I shouldn't be thinking?" It's not a guilt thing by any means, but a reminder to put God first in my life.
Jesus realized the importance of having close friends when He was here. If He knew how important it was to have close friends, we can certainly take note and follow suit.
It's important to be held accountable. Personally, I know what a positive difference it has made in my life, and I know how easily I can get sidetracked, so having close Godly friends is extremely important.
_____________________________
There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven
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RE: Accountability? - 9/17/2008 5:58:42 AM
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creationtalk
Posts: 695
Joined: 6/9/2005
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Sometimes having someone to be accountable to is hard to find.
For a person to serve as an accountability partner (or accountability authority)
1) the person must be trustworthy and trusted
2) the person must be involved in the live of the person whom they hold accountable enough to KNOW when they need to address an issue
3) both parties (and all persons in both parties) need to agree to the type of sharing of personal information that would lead to accountability
4) this person must also have someone to whom they are accountable (mutual accountability is a possibility)
5) the person must be grounded in scripture and able to give scripture references as needed to demonstrate the validity of the counsel
6) the person must be able to confront an offending party without backing down
7) the person must have the time or be willing to MAKE the time to meet with the person they are holding accountable.
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RE: Accountability? - 9/17/2008 8:28:17 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4034
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
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Wow - a mature believer.. What a concept!
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Accountability? - 9/20/2008 6:04:09 AM
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cinderella092003
Posts: 132
Joined: 6/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
This subject touches on a lot of areas and perhaps could have been in any one of a half-dozen different threads.
I have read about pastors teaching blatant doctrinal error and promoting sinful life styles.
I have read about dating or engaged couples struggling to stay pure in their relationship.
I have read about spousal rape.
I have read about abusive language between spouses.
I have read about child abuse (physical, emotional and sexual).
The thing is, the people behind all this stuff claim to be believers and are committed to living biblically.
Who is in their life that can call them to account and "hold their feet to the fire" so-to-speak to get them to clean up their act?
Pastors? Elders or Deacons? Counselors? Parents?
The thing is, we don't want to be accountable to anyone "but God," and in that we fool ourselves. God established congregational leadership to call the membership into account. (read Heb 13)
Any ideas on how to establish a meaningful degree of accountability in relationships? Sometimes an engaged couple will ask someone to be their accountability partner for a while, i.e. until the marriage. But what about after?
Are you accountable to someone if you get abusive with your spouse or children?
Boy have you touched on a subject that I am extremely passionate about! In all the churches I have been in, there was only one that encouraged accountability on a consistent basis. I have been very blessed with a great accountability partner. She is actually the one who lead me to the Lord. There was a time when she went off to college and I was engaged where we parted ways for a while and that is actually when my husband and I struggled the most to stay pure. Thankfully we got right with God and found someone to hold us accountable.
My accountability partner lives 2,000 miles away and overall I reccomend you finding someone in the town or city you are living in, but God has really orchestrated keeping her in my life. We have accountability once a week over the phone and then call each other as needed in a week if there are any issues that come up. I trust her completly with whatever I am struggling with. I know she is going to give me a biblical perspective and back it up with plenty of scripture. We pray for each other and we are just there for each other.
I know that, and have seen the evidence, that when someone is holding me accountable to honoring Christ with all of my life, that I am a better wife, mother, pastor's wife, sister, servant, etc,etc. I do agree with a lot of people that it is hard to find an accountability partner that you can trust, but I think that is only part of it. I think the other part is them trusting you, and because they don't want to tell me when i am doing something wrong and vice versa.
I read a quote on here by another poster, and I can't remember who, but it said "When iron sharpens iron, sparks fly" . I think some people don't want to enter into those kind of relationships because they are afraid of starting some fires.
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RE: Accountability? - 9/20/2008 6:28:04 AM
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ebony101
Posts: 893
Joined: 4/1/2007
From: the big blue marble
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Accountalbility must be preluded by recognition and admittance that you are doing something wrong. If a person keeps making excuses or does not realise that something is wrong then they would not even be thinking of accountability.
Secondly to be spriitually accountable, in terms of having an 'accountability partner' means taking a big step in opening yourself to another person and trusting that person will keep what you're going through to him/herself.
That's just my $5.00 worth of imo. (price increase from 2cents due to inflation)
_____________________________
'We're writing a gospel, a chapter each day,
By the things that we do & the words that we say.'
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RE: Accountability? - 9/20/2008 7:27:06 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1791
Joined: 5/23/2006
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one of the requirements of leadership at our church is accountability commitments and I am so glad it is set up that way.
I believe accountability is not only Biblical, but also wise for every area of life. It's something I don't struggle with a lot because I grew up having it in our home.
I think it goes hand in hand with responsibility. What is our responsibility to God? Ourselves? Our spouse? Our children? Our workplace? it's like a chain reaction is what my mother taught me...What you neglect at home spills over into your schoolwork, your sports activities, and other projects etc.
It's also true with finances, how we handle our money spills over into so many other aspects of our lives...esp. our marriages.
Learning to be accountable early has saved me from so many struggles. I really wouldn't feel comfortable in an environment that didn't require it.
The way I suggest is begin with the parents- help them teach the kids through chores, allowances, schoolwork, outside activities, etc that accountability equals responsibility. Have natural consequences built in...then as the child gets older connect it in more ways such as money, driving privileges, etc...
If it's an adult then I think church leadership is to be one of the best sources for accountability. Develop mens and womens groups for the purpose of friendship and accountability.
It's a requirement for our Pastor also..He attends accountability group regularly, as do all the other leaders.
I also think waiting until a crisis is a BAD IDEA.
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RE: Accountability? - 9/20/2008 11:02:06 AM
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allisonbrett
Posts: 196
Joined: 5/29/2008
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Great topic Dave!!!
It's becoming more and more difficult to hold someone accountable without touching on the whole judgmental thing. Next you hear is quoting scripture out about not judging. They focus more on God's love and forgiveness and forget about living according to God's Word. My husband and I have visited churches that gloss over that whole accountability. Reminds me of Joel Osteen.
We have several friends that we encourage to be accountable. Some we are mentoring while others are more friends.
Right now, my husband and I hold each other accountable. I'm sure we need someone on the outside to reign us back in from time to time but we do catch each other straying on occassion. Between the two of us we really try to spend time in God's word and read a lot of books on understanding God's character and the lessons he taught us from scripture.
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Allison's World My Blog
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RE: Accountability? - 9/20/2008 11:58:43 AM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 617
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
It's becoming more and more difficult to hold someone accountable without touching on the whole judgmental thing.
You know I think you hit it right on the head here. I think people think every time someone holds them accountable it's judgment. The difference between accountability and judgment is really simple:
Accountability holds one to a standard and when the standard is missed a person comes along side of you and admonishes you and helps you meet the standard.
Judgment is FINAL.
G
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Accountability? - 9/20/2008 1:04:37 PM
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buckifn
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I don't understand why accountability has to be connected with something that has been done wrong....
If things are done correctly isn't accountability part of the daily routine? In church, family, business, and other areas of our lives it should be expected....shouldn't it?
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RE: Accountability? - 9/20/2008 1:49:43 PM
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gaylel1
Posts: 1328
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southern California, the land of Fruit and nuts...
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I think so. That is why when I date someone, that person must be accountable to the church, which is not the building, but brothers in the faith where he can be mentored and held for his actions. This is why I'm wary (and please forgive me if I go off subject here) about these online dating services and especially those men who say they are christian--and anyone can say they are a Christian, but at the same time, some men (and I'm not saying everyone) is not being at a place where he can find fellowship with other belivers and not being fed the word.
And this is why you have those christians who are in "name only" and not in a community of believers.
Hebrews 10:25 says that we as Christians should not forsake the fellowship. That scripture is put there for a reason for believers because we do need each other to be mentored and when we fall off "the wagon" as we say, our brother and sister can pick us up and get us back in line.
_____________________________
Hear "The Truth" with the "other"l Jeff Johnson(http://www.calvarydowney.org)
Visit me at http:www.gayleplace.blogspot.com or http://www.myspace.com/gaylel121
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RE: Accountability? - 9/20/2008 9:38:39 PM
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jaimestarcross
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In my humble opinion I'm accountable to my christian brother or sister
that sees me in the wrong or sensing I need a word of encouragement or needing someone to chat with etc...
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