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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 7:06:05 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2341
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
Can we say oxymoron. Which is it? Is it a choice or requirement?
Was he ever in the army? Mandatory - Voluntary sounds like one of my dad's army stories. :P
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 7:11:31 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1017
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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Steph,
If you would have given this as a multiple choice question of "who said this?"... most of the Obamamanics who regularly post here would have voted Sarah Palin.
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 7:20:31 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2237
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Can we say oxymoron. Which is it? Is it a choice or requirement?
Was he ever in the army? Mandatory - Voluntary sounds like one of my dad's army stories. :P
Unfortunately no.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 8:19:57 PM
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litfire2000
Posts: 265
Joined: 7/6/2008
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Having been in the Navy, I can definitely attest to the fact that volunteering was voluntary. But, of course, it was expected that one would volunteer and you were "thanked" for volunteering in advance of your saying or doing anything. Then you were given the orders on how to carry out the voluntary task and sent to perform said duties. But, "mandatory"...nah!!!!!
_____________________________
Ps. 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 8:28:36 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1305
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Blinks twice. What?? I just showed up to clean the floors!!! LOL!! Good post.
quote:
ORIGINAL: litfire2000
Having been in the Navy, I can definitely attest to the fact that volunteering was voluntary. But, of course, it was expected that one would volunteer and you were "thanked" for volunteering in advance of your saying or doing anything. Then you were given the orders on how to carry out the voluntary task and sent to perform said duties. But, "mandatory"...nah!!!!!
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 8:36:41 PM
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jbow
Posts: 631
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
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He will be waiting a L-O-N-G time for me to volunteer for any of his programs... I will not do it on principle.
I've no problem giving or helping but I will not ne told what to give, how to help, when to help, or where to help by anyone other then the Lord. Nor will I encourage anyone else to submit to such. My family will learn something else...
J
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:00:17 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2237
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
The Dear Leader has his "Office of the President-Elect" site up and one of the changes he wants is for "mandatory voluntary" community service for us all. 
quote:
America Serves
"When you choose to serve --
The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.
Can we say oxymoron. Which is it? Is it a choice or requirement? 
It's obviously voluntary. The hours he is suggesting are just a minimum of what he would like people to volunteer if they're going to volunteer.
It's interesting you left the following out of the article to make Obama look bad. Why did you feel the need to lie by not telling the whole story?
"Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free."
For starters, the TOS specifically states NO posting of entire articles. There was only a couple paragraphs. Don't call me a liar.
The website says, in one sentence that choose to serve and in a following paragraph it's going to be required. Required is the same as mandatory. Mandatory =/= voluntary.
man·da·to·ry (mnd-tôr, -tr)
adj.
1. Required or commanded by authority; obligatory: Attendance at the meeting is mandatory.
Voluntary=
1. done, made, brought about, undertaken, etc., of one's own accord or by free choice: a voluntary contribution.
2. of, pertaining to, or acting in accord with the will: voluntary cooperation.
3. of, pertaining to, or depending on voluntary action: voluntary hospitals.
4. Law.
a. acting or done without compulsion or obligation.
b. done by intention, and not by accident: voluntary manslaughter.
c. made without valuable consideration: a voluntary settlement.
5. Physiology. subject to or controlled by the will.
6. having the power of willing or choosing: a voluntary agent.
7. proceeding from a natural impulse; spontaneous: voluntary laughter.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:02:27 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1305
Joined: 4/12/2005
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What will happen if you chose not to serve? Then what?
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:08:46 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2237
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
What will happen if you chose not to serve? Then what?
That is the question I would like to know. It isn't that the idea of voluntary service is bad, it's not. I do it. I do it out of a genuine desire to help others. They don't even give that much community service for a lot of criminals.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:14:45 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1305
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I wonder if you would be pressured to help? Like getting pamplets, emails, phone calls.
Good morning, Ms StephK,
We have looked over our records and we noticed you haven't signed up for any of our programs. You do want to be a good American and support your country, don't you?
I understand all those responsibilities you have with kids, family, work, but this is your country we're talking about. So we know you will do your duty and volunteer, right??
Oh, Steph, I don't want to volunteer!!!
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
What will happen if you chose not to serve? Then what?
That is the question I would like to know. It isn't that the idea of voluntary service is bad, it's not. I do it. I do it out of a genuine desire to help others. They don't even give that much community service for a lot of criminals.
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:26:41 PM
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steph381
Posts: 141
Joined: 10/16/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
I wonder if you would be pressured to help? Like getting pamphlets, emails, phone calls.
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
What will happen if you chose not to serve? Then what?
Well when I turned 18 the army try to heavily recruit me. They promised me free education, came to my high school, my home, mailed me literature, etc. I almost joined just because of the pressure they put on me. It was very tough and stressing. If Obama wants to advertise for volunteers to help out communities I think he's allowed to do that as long as its reasonable. No harrassing people! He doesn't have the right to force people to volunteer but their's nothing wrong with asking.
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:28:27 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2237
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
I wonder if you would be pressured to help? Like getting pamplets, emails, phone calls.
Good morning, Ms StephK,
We have looked over our records and we noticed you haven't signed up for any of our programs. You do want to be a good American and support your country, don't you?
I understand all those responsibilities you have with kids, family, work, but this is your country we're talking about. So we know you will do your duty and volunteer, right??
Oh, Steph, I don't want to volunteer!!!
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
What will happen if you chose not to serve? Then what?
That is the question I would like to know. It isn't that the idea of voluntary service is bad, it's not. I do it. I do it out of a genuine desire to help others. They don't even give that much community service for a lot of criminals.
Who knows, the media did not vet him.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:29:29 PM
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henny
Posts: 1168
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
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In Steph's defense it seems the website might have changed.
A little e-sleuthing on my own part revealed that 7 hours ago the words "to require" were present, as evident in the google cache of it:
http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:f_Q-RMW-DJoJ:www.change.gov/americaserves/+http://change.gov/americaserves/&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
Currently they have been replaced with "by setting a goal":
http://change.gov/americaserves/
Perhaps it was bad wording. Or perhaps they realized that "requiring" anything of middle schoolers would be an awful idea?
I actually agree with the OP that the "requirement" option would be dumb and impractical and would defeat the entire purpose of volunteering.
But I do think that the "setting a goal" route, as long as it is not mandatory, would not be a bad thing. Any initiative that would encourage young people to volunteer would be a good thing.
_____________________________
Hell is other Christians.
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:35:18 PM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 596
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
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I don't see why people are trying to make this out to be a bad thing. Isn't volunteering something God would want us to do. If everyone gave a darn and volunteered maybe this country wouldn't be in as bad shape as it is. If everyone in the U.S. gave just one dollar a month no would go hungry and people might not be homeless. Unfortunately, us humans are as greedy with our time as our money.
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:38:23 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2237
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
I have seen much longer articles than this posted, that you would leave out the couple of sentences in his call for volunteerism giving money for college, is must suspect. I didn't mean to call you a liar. Your post however is most misleading. If your going to post a story it would be most advangteous to post the whole story.
The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.
Here's the full article from the link in your own post. Can you show me exactly where he uses the term "required".
That bit of information was NOT on the original link. The link in the original post had nothing about tax credits for any service. NONE. I posted as much as possible on the article without breaking the TOS.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:45:43 PM
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henny
Posts: 1168
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
That bit of information was NOT on the original link. The link in the original post had nothing about tax credits for any service. NONE. I posted as much as possible on the article without breaking the TOS.
Once again everyone completely ignores henny!
Anyways, you are correct.
The article does seem to have changed since you originally posted it.
See post 19.
_____________________________
Hell is other Christians.
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:48:05 PM
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jbow
Posts: 631
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
Status: offline
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quote:
Unfortunately, us humans are as greedy with our time as our money.
Who are you talking about?
http://www.newsbusters.org/node/9323
J
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:48:28 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1305
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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It's not that we are greedy for our time and money, it's more of what are these programs? Will you volunteer in an abortion clinic? Not me!!! Sorry!! Will you volunteer in a program in which folks who don't want to work and want to get a check instead, help them find stuff to do to keep them occupied? Sorry, not me!!! It's sort of like being in church and pastor and the members make you feel guilty b/c you're not volunteering in the nursery.
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
I don't see why people are trying to make this out to be a bad thing. Isn't volunteering something God would want us to do. If everyone gave a darn and volunteered maybe this country wouldn't be in as bad shape as it is. If everyone in the U.S. gave just one dollar a month no would go hungry and people might not be homeless. Unfortunately, us humans are as greedy with our time as our money.
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RE: A Change Is Gonna Come - 11/7/2008 9:49:05 PM
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relady
Posts: 1207
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school This is already a requirement in Missouri so nothin new here. It's a good thing and I think adding 100 hours to college is a good idea. Sounds to me like this is the only thing that will be mandatory. I'm sure everything is still in the infancy of planning stages and will be fleshed out after he takes office. I have absolutely no problem with volunteering as long as it is truly voluntary, except in the case of community service for students.
Like anything else, if you don't want to do community service to get some of your college paid for, feel free. I'm sure no one is going to be "forced" to volunteer. Except middle and high schoolers....who already are "forced" to do community service in Missouri.
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